2016 R1200RS No Spark, Need Help Please.

[jandhumphreyme]

You sound very knowledgeable, forgive me if Im to simplistic. You indicated you have an O scope, did you checked your trigger wire pulse signal from the ecu? Thanks for posting your testing very informative. Waiting to see what the dealer uncovers.
I think you indicated above you have a scope, what model? I've been looking at the AESWave U Scope only single channel but seems to me to be useful tool, are you familiar with this unit? What are your thoughts?

 

[52184]

So, coils are checking good. The next question is whether or not a signal is actually being sent from the reluctor assy on the camshaft. If you have a wiring diagram that shows where that signal enters the harness or ECU it would be interesting to tap that in parallel and see if you get a signal when cranking.

Best,
DeVern

 

[vwsandman]

I have an old Pocket scope that looks like an ipod or old Mp3 Player. (Remember those things? Mp3 player! Seems like an age ago...) Very similar to this unit here on Amazon: O scope I actually have to dig around and see where that got to....and if it even still works yet! Just a quick search for pocket Oscopes on Amazon shows just how inexpensive these are now. This one here is only $35? Crazy cheap and would suffice for any DIY things most of us would ever need to do: $35 O scope on Amazon. Sorry, I have no other experience with the Oscope you mentioned above jandhumpreyme. Looks like plenty of them just like it on Amazon, for less and in stock. I did not check for this signal as my assumption was that when cranking over, the ECU is reporting to GS911 Crankshaft and Camshaft RPM. My assumption is that these two signals come from the crankshaft and camshaft sensors. as there are no other sensors on the engine for this. I am more inclined to see the trigger pulse, or lack there of the +5VDC trigger signal to the coils. I might have some time today to finish checking things on the RS. I had to repair the fold down load gate on my trailer I will use for hauling it to the dealer. I used Piano hinge when I built it last time....that, despite tons of lube and grease still rusted itself solid. I replaced with three 1/2" weld on, lift off style hinges from McMaster Carr. These have grease fittings so it should be fixed for good now. Live and learn. But I digress.

 

[jandhumphreyme]

Thanks for the info, I may try that O scope for that kind of money. Well I'm not sure if the signal is coming from the ECU or directly from the sensors. There is no doubt the signal is coming from the sensor so there fine. Yes is the trigger signal coming from the ECU to the coils is the question. Well we will see what the dealer reports. Good luck Mate, cheering for you, hope the repair is minimal. Bloody trailers, no matter what we do they cost money. Please report back.

 

[vwsandman]

UPDATE:
Hello all. I found the G.A.S. (Give A $hit) to dive into ISTA+ last week. My overwhelming curiosity won out. I have Chinesium ICOM and OBD D Can K+ D Can adapters inroute and should arrive today/early next week. One of these adapters (or both?) combined with my round OBD (2016 and below BMW Motorcycles) to OBD adapter cable from my GS-911 kit Should allow ITSA+ to comunicate to my R1200RS and get inside the DME and hopefully find out what is wrong. This is essentially the same software and hardware(ish) that the dealer would likely use anyway. ITSA+ is the Integrated Technical Service Application and works with the BMW group of vehicles to include BMW Motorrad. Finding exact information is hard enough for this and even harder for the motorcycles. I am at the point where ISTA+ is working on my laptop and I was able to input the two VIN numbers for my two BMW motorcycles and look up service procedures, wiring diagrams, build information, ect. all without actually connecting to the motorcycles. So just having that data as the dealer does is worth the time and money spent so far to me! There are so many softare versions and revisions that it is VERY overwhelming at first. I kept at it and watched various YouTube videos and scoured many forums to arrive a starting point. At first I was confused by ISTA D and ISTA P and ISTA+ and all of the other flavors of these BMW softwares. Essentially what I learned is that ISTA D was for Diagnostics while ISTA P was for Programming. ISTA + (what I am going to use) is those two early programs all in one package. Each has an extensive specific database (huge!) and hardware and software requirements. Most due to file size will require using torrents to download and I found that an external 4TB SSD was invaluable. I added a second 2TB NVMe SSD drive to my laptop to complement the 1TB NVMe SSD it had in the first bay and doubled down on the RAM going from 32GB to 64GB. While none of this was neccesary, it wasn't that expensive and gave my laptop some extra ompf! So the next step in this adventure is learning about the two different comm adapters and the requirements for each to include drivers, settings, IP addresses and on and on.....fingers crossed I can get them to work and get online with the poor RS and see what we can see. far more extensive tool set that GS911, but to be expected for what each platform is intended to do. The GS911 is a terrific tool for what most of us will ever need. If I succesfully tackle this, I might even try ESYS as well ( A WHOLE other can of worms!, but something I might be interested in for my 2022 BMW S1000RR) My thought was for what I am likely to spend going to the dealer, I could purchase and figure out the same tool set and do it myself. Nothing ventured, nothing gained as they say? Worst case it still goes to the dealer? I'll update more as things develop! Stay tuned!

 

[jandhumphreyme]

Good luck mate, please keep us posted on your progress.

 

[vwsandman]

Hello All, I hope all is well with you and yours. Little update to share after recieving the Amazon K+DCAN cable today. Eventually figured out what I needed to do in the EDIBAS OBD.INI and the comm port settings and what the right FTID drivers (USB Serial port converter) should have been installed. Phew what a PITA! Long story short, I got ISTA+ to go online with the R1200RS! Wooo Hoo!!! I did it!!! I expected more than what the GS911 does, but nope, does pretty much the same exact thing as the GS911! Major Bummer! Although, FWIW, the GS911 is 1 million times easier to use! No faults stored in the DME, all of tghe other modules other than the GME are ok. My Weisertechnik LED turnsignals have the GME unit mad. Bike will not start, just cranks and cranks. Same thing I see with the GS911, Crank speed, Camshaft speed, ignition timing is-3 degrees (not sure what it should be? Why would it change?) So my next hope is the ICOM unit which will allow ISTA+ to do more things than it will do with only a K+DCAN cable which seems to be limited to diagnostics only and not much more. The ICOM unit should open up the full potential of ISTA+.....At this point, I am not sure how much more even the dealer would do other than throw parts at it? You would think cranking the motorcycle and getting a non-start condition would trigger a fault code? Nope. About the only thing I can think of at this point as that the DME (Engine ECU) is bad....that is a $1500 part plus programing at the dealer, I don't think it is something I would attempt with the piece meal software and chinesium hardware I am using, I brick a new DME and it is a bad day for sure!... I'll post up more of what the ICOM unit does for me. That should be another load of "fun" as it uses an Ethernet cable and a bunch of other settings I will need to learn and figure out.....

Now that I have this going I might see what happens when I plug into my Son's 2009 BMW M3. He has a misfire code with cylinder 8.....Always something right?

 

[vwsandman]

Update:
FWIW, I was able to switch vehicle config in ISTA+ for BMW cars and was able to go online with my Son's 2009 BMW M3 using the K+DCAN USB cable. Very interesting and the suggested repair procedures are very nice to include component location and associated wiring diagrams. The Scope function with the engine running was pretty neat as well. Looks like the ICOM clone I ordered is out for delivery today so I will see how that adapter goes with ISTA+ and if it unlocks more information or abilities. I'm not thinking it will, but I am trying as much as I can before it goes to the dealer this Friday the 13th.

 

[omega man]

Hello All, I hope all is well with you and yours. Little update to share after recieving the Amazon K+DCAN cable today. Eventually figured out what I needed to do in the EDIBAS OBD.INI and the comm port settings and what the right FTID drivers (USB Serial port converter) should have been installed. Phew what a PITA! Long story short, I got ISTA+ to go online with the R1200RS! Wooo Hoo!!! I did it!!! I expected more than what the GS911 does, but nope, does pretty much the same exact thing as the GS911! Major Bummer! Although, FWIW, the GS911 is 1 million times easier to use! No faults stored in the DME, all of tghe other modules other than the GME are ok. My Weisertechnik LED turnsignals have the GME unit mad. Bike will not start, just cranks and cranks. Same thing I see with the GS911, Crank speed, Camshaft speed, ignition timing is-3 degrees (not sure what it should be? Why would it change?) So my next hope is the ICOM unit which will allow ISTA+ to do more things than it will do with only a K+DCAN cable which seems to be limited to diagnostics only and not much more. The ICOM unit should open up the full potential of ISTA+.....At this point, I am not sure how much more even the dealer would do other than throw parts at it? You would think cranking the motorcycle and getting a non-start condition would trigger a fault code? Nope. About the only thing I can think of at this point as that the DME (Engine ECU) is bad....that is a $1500 part plus programing at the dealer, I don't think it is something I would attempt with the piece meal software and chinesium hardware I am using, I brick a new DME and it is a bad day for sure!... I'll post up more of what the ICOM unit does for me. That should be another load of "fun" as it uses an Ethernet cable and a bunch of other settings I will need to learn and figure out.....

Now that I have this going I might see what happens when I plug into my Son's 2009 BMW M3. He has a misfire code with cylinder 8.....Always something right?

Might be nice to know what all the letter abbreviations are. When I think ICOM, I think Ham Radio Equipment.
OM

 

[vwsandman]

Might be nice to know what all the letter abbreviations are. When I think ICOM, I think Ham Radio Equipment.
OM

I hear you! I'm not even sure what these all mean to be honest. There is ISTA-D, ISTA-P, ISTA+, ICOM (A,B, C, NEXT), EDIABAS, INPA, and on and on...I'm still figuring most of this out and completly understand why there is no "one spot" to go to for all of this as it matters what BMW you are trying to work with, what year it is, what cables and interface you have or need to use, the setting and drivers for each option, then the databases and all of the other stuff...and most if not all you search and look for is based on working on BMW cars, not motorcycles. I'm amazed I got this far to be honest!

 

[vwsandman]

My eBay ICOM NEXT came today. Two days ahead of schedule! Just looking at it and the way it is constructed seems to be pretty dang nice if I am honest. I'll start monkeying around with it tonight and see what is needed in ISTA+ to get this thing going. I know I need to do IRADAR (yes, another BMW program!) to do something with IP address from the ICOM Next to the Laptop and change the connection device in ISTA+.....

There seems to be a niche out there in the world for this information to be posted/hosted somewhere... I won't make any promises, but I will see what I can compile after it is all said and done in case someone else wants to try this path for themselves....

Like I stated before, for what the GS911 costs, what it does and the constant free updates and ease of use by comparision, for 90% of us, this is all anyone should ever need to service and work on a modern BMW motorcycle.

 

[vwsandman]

Well, where to start? First, let me say that ISTA+ with ICOM NEXT adapter, WOW! Second, it was actually easier and less of a PITA than the USB K+DCAN cable and does soo much more! I'm glad that cable was only $25 on Amazon, It likely will not be needed now, but was a good way to test the ISTA+ software I had installed. I had to change the ISTA+ Settings back to BMW Motorrad (I had it set to BMW cars for my Sons car) and change the adapter to ICOM Local Intranet. I used Itools radar and that program saw the ICOM NEXT via the ethernet cable and it's static IP address and also the firmware of the ICOM NEXT. Pretty cool. The ICOM Next needs to be powered by the vehicle under test, I.E. Plugged in to the OBD port. When I restarted ISTA+ after changing the configs, I then went to the vehicle identification tab, start test. It all worked and found the R1200RS and connected to all of the control units. Easy Peasy! I had the turnsignal faults still in the GME which with this setup I was able to clear, the ICOM will shut off the ignition and turn it back on and reset the faults. It actually does this for many of the tests as well which is pretty cool I think. Unfortuantely, there does not seem to be a fault buffer in the DME, so once you clear a fult like I initially did with the GS911, they are gone for good! DOH! If in doubt, save the codes! Did I mention to save the codes? I tested all sorts of things based on the issues list I selected and then created a test plan for. You then do each test plan (ABR) one at a time in sequence (or not if you prefer) and it steps you through each test, wiring diagrams, test harness adapters, you name it. ISTA+ is very comprehensive!. Unfourtunately, many of these suggested tests require the engine to run for the self diagnosis of the individual test plans...since the bike will not start, these tests don't work.....I did not do a complete step by step per the ISTA+ test plans tonight. I was more then pleased to go online with this tool and hardware adapter, see everything work and what each tab and option might let me do. One VERY interesting option opened up with this are control module software updates. ALL of my modules have software updates available. I saw two optional items to code as well:
1) LED Turnsignals (which I have but am not coded for, hence the GME fault codes and sometimes rapid flash rates)
2) Hill Start Control (HSC) I have this on my 2022 BMW S1000RR and I like this feature. To be able to add this to my heavier 2016 R1200RS when loaded up for a long tour would be nice as well!

That is as far as I got tonight, I did not dare to recode (update) anything or add any other options. I see there is also the option to replace modules like the DME (engine ECU) and code the new unit based on the current vehicle plan....if the DME is actually bad and is the reason for the no start condition, then that could be an option for me at home to try with perhaps a used ECU.......or a new one bought from the dealer or online from Bob's or Max BMW?


EDIT: Nope I doubt BMW is going to sell me a blank DME and let me code it myself......I can't say I blame them either.....and not sure I trust myself enough to possibly burn $1455 either...... but I see a couple on Ebay from used/wrecked R1200RS that are around $400...I might be tempted to give that a gamble anyway....

Too much to think about and digest for right now.....I think a nice discussion with my dealer before hand to explain all of this in person may be warranted...not sure how open they are to that sort of discussion? Certainly validating my efforts to date wouldn't hurt either....

 

[vwsandman]

Hello all. I Managed to find some time today to call and discuss this issue with the delaer where I was going to take the RS today for a diagnostics appointment tomorrow. I described in detail with the service manager and head service technician what I was doing so far, what I was doing when the fault occured, what the fault said and what ISTA+ and using an ICOM Next vehicle interface has shown me to date. We came to the agreement that I should check the 5 VDC trigger pulse from the DME to the coils and see if that is there or not at the coils when trying to start the bike. Something I had mentioned I would use my Osciliscope for in previous posts. If the wiring is ok, then the likely hood is that the DME coil outputs have failed and will need to be replaced. What they said next regarding this process somewhat confirmed my thoughts regarding purchasing a new or used DME and my ability to exchange these modules myself even though I have ISTA+ an and ICOM Next unit. The units ONLY come from BMW Germany and must be ordered for your vehicle by a dealership. They are hard coded with the VIN and mileage from BMW. This is a ONE TIME process despite various claims from online vendors (scammers). This makes sense to me as it would be too easy to steal motorcycles and just start over with a new ECU....the other issue they said I would encounter even with a used DME is the Keyless ride and getting the EWS module to work with the different DME. Again, antitheft features built in. All of which makes sense. So with that in mind, and confirming that I essentially have the same tool set that they do, to one more time, from the begining using ISTA+ as a guide for my repair and diagnostic plan, work through each step meticulously in sequence for a no start condition. I will try to make some time this weekend to start from scratch and do a deep dive into it one more time. The dealer is honestly just as confused and intrigued and I suspect many of you are as well. I know I am. We both agreed that there in reality is not that much to the entire system, especially when compared to my 2022 S1000R! I will test all of the coils I have on hand in depth on the bench as well. They mentioned the 270 degree firing order and thought that my -3 degree ignition timing when starting the bike seemed right as well. I will re-verify the cam timing and the relucter wheel alignment for the cam position sensor. Process of elimination. If I get back the same place I am now, then it is off to the dealer for a new DME, if it doesn't start after that.....new R1300RS when they come out or a new R1250RS?

I will let you all know what I find out! Stay tuned!

 

[vwsandman]

Hello all. I did some more checks this weekend. Verified good compression both cylinders. 12 BAR (175psi) was measured. According to the Haynes manual this is good. I did not think this was a problem, but it was easy to check. I used my Oscilloscope to check the 5VDC Trigger pulse to the coils from the DME. Very intermittent and not even close to what I would call a trigger signal. Certainly not enough to get a spark on a coil plugged in and a grounded spark plug visually anyway. Doing more You Tubing and Googling revealed that in the BMW car word, it is not too uncommon for Coil Driver failures in the DME (ECU) with the N54 and the MSD80 DME units. I VERY much suspect that is what my DME is suffering with. My very HIGH RPM and rev limiter bouncing probably killed the coil driver MOSFETS. From what I recall about the four faults codes I did not save (sigh) and what I have dug around and read online, the fault symptoms seem to be very similar. If the MOSFETS failed then this is what is causing my issue. I’m going to look into places online that advertise for repairing those units and if this is something they might have some experience with for the Motorrad BMW products. Some of the places mention they can clone the DME as well, but my dealer cautioned me regarding that as it was “sketchy at best”. Yes, the result of my childish riding behavior is likely to be very expensive…. I guess my right hand and brain having been used to riding the MUCH higher revving S1000RR got the best of me this time…poor RS! This is why I bought the S1000RR! So I could “take it easy” on the Ol’ RS. Whoops! As the weather gets chillier I’d like to have the RS running again to extend the riding season a bit easier than on the S1000RR….heated vest and heated grips only go so far on the S1000RR compared to the RS that is for sure!

 

[vwsandman]

Hello all. I worked up the nerve to open the DME. The cover is sealed and the circuit board has heat sink transfer adhesive on a section of it to the aluminum cover. Not the most serviceable design. I found two obvious 90N04 MOSFET drivers on the DME board. Without having any board schematics or component locations I can only guess if they are for the coils as they could also be for the injectors as they usually use a MOSFET to drive them as well for the high switching frequency these devices need to operate. I looked up testing the MOSFETS online. As a type of transistor they are current switching devices that consist of a Gate, Source and Drain. Simply put, when the Gate has voltage applied, the drain will conduct current flow (switch closed). This can be tested with a basic Digital multi-meter. With your finger over the three legs of the MOSFET you can drain the Gate and turn off the Source, the Drain to Source “switch” is then OPEN. When you have your DMM set to Diode check, when you put the RED lead on the Gate, this will charge up the Gate like a capacitor and turn ON the MOSFET and the Drain to Source is now CLOSED and will have continuity. From what I can tell on the two MOSFETS I was able to identify on the CB they are working. As this is a very complex multi-layer CB, it could be other components in the board that are preventing the coils from firing. At this point I think the only thing left to do is take it to the dealer and have them diagnosis and likely order a new DME from Germany. Here are some pictures of the DME for the curious out there. Also, the Circuit board is held in place with even more adhesive. I'm not going to dig any deeper in this thing for fear of doing even more damage . This DME still needs to be functional so we can continue to comunicate with it and be able to work for whatever the Dealer and BMW will need to use it for to replace it. Or the dealer will find something so obvious that I overlooked it.... Not sure if I will bring it to them this year or not...it's going to be expensive and it's return to service is in direct competition for funds required to complete some projects around the house that will need to be completed before the snow starts to fly, like filling the gaping hole created very recently for a new patio door in the kitchen. Needs must as they say.

 

[pauls1150]

"liked" for the retired nerd in me...

 

[vwsandman]

Hello All, I hope this finds you all well. Very brief update. I took a bit of time yesterday to plug in to the RS with ISTA+ and my ICOM Next as the last time I did so in my poking around with all of the features I stumbled upon software updates and the ability to install LED turn signals and to install Hill start control. I was able to select these items and to add them to the work to be performed. ISTA+ updated all of the control units (at least to the latest version I have, this will not go out to the BMW servers to look for updates or new versions as I have that turned off and do not have those permissions to do so anyway) and installed the LED turn signal option. I was unable to do the Hill start control as that requires a purchased license which I do not have. Fair enough. Everything went very well and was very easy to do. ISTA+ pretty much does it all for you. Maybe took ten minutes? I was hopeful that maybe it would do something in the DME to let the bike start again. No such luck! It was worth a try and very interesting to do anyway. At least my digging around in the DME did not do anything and ISTA+ and the ICOM still could communicate to it. I did have to clear a bunch of new fault codes that were CAN bus and ABS related so hard to say what opening the DME up and touching things inside (even with a proper static strap on and the unit grounded can do?) The faults did clear and the software update worked so I don't think I did any lasting damage...


I completely forgot about an important MOA benefit, the BMW parts and accessories 10% rebate! Going to take full advantage of that and bring the bike to the dealer next week and at least all of this will cost a little less. I have taken advantage of this in the past and can highly recomend this to our members!

With all of these new tools at my disposal (ISTA+ and ICOM Next) I want to extend my abilities to anyone in or around South East Wisconsin, North East Illinois who needs help or would like to scan thier BMW. I live in Racine, WI and if I have the time, offer my help (free of charge of course!) to do so.