• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

Accident scene

In early spring of 1966, as I was riding my newly acquired Triumph TR6 into the east edge of Topeka,(having Greyhound'ed to north KC to pick it up) As I came in on the hwy I was joined by a city cop who followed me all the way into my parking spot in town where we were bacheloring it. I asked what was up, he nicely tells me I'm getting a ticket for loud pipes. I ask how so as they are the factory pipes on a nearly new bike. "We are getting a lot of complaints & have been told to crank up enforcement of loud pipes". Move forward to now & loud pipes-those would be laughable to the other crowd...
 
...... I believe it is pretty much accepted that using a hand-held cellphone while driving is as predictive of an accident as driving with a .08 BAC. Driving while texting is equivalent to driving dead drunk. So, why not some few days where THESE laws become the priority for LEO's? (I expect the penalties are not even close to the DUI penalties in any jurisdiction, but SOME enforcement would be a good start.)


Actually I believe that several studies have found texting is up to EIGHT times more dangerous!!! And some attribute 11,000 fatalities annually, due to distracted driving. Yet the penalties do not reflect the seriousness of those actions. In NY we were one of the first states to make use of cell phones, without a hands free device illegal (that is a whole discussion in itself), and you could be stopped and ticketed, but when the first passed the texting law our lawmakers chose to make it only a secondary offense, meaning you could not be stopped for doing it, but could be ticketed if you were stopped for another infraction!!! I never did find out how such a stupid decision was made, but my guess is some state politician got rich from a communications companies "political contribution".



I have said for years cell phones should be DISABLED, at speeds above 15 mph. Why do we need to communicate 24/77?? Most conversations are drivel anyway, and personally I survived fine before I had a cell phone.


And on the questions of how we pay for simulators, $150 retraining fee for those ticketed, and you have 30 days or your license is suspended until you get the training.
 
Greenwald, I'm sure you are correct that LEO's on the street enforce the laws their superiors TELL them to enforce and mostly ignore other infractions. My question is how the superior officers decide which traffic laws should be occasionally enforced (given reduced personnel) and which should be totally ignored.

Here in BC we have three "nanny laws," - my shorthand for laws that protect us from ourselves, not others from ourselves: seatbelts, MC helmets, and bicycle helmets. You WILL receive a ticket and fine if you are not wearing your seatbelt if stopped for any reason. EVERYBODY wears a MC helmet in BC - though often a junk one, now illegal - because again you WILL be fined for not wearing a MC helmet. Over 50% of all bicycle riders I see, both juvenile and adult, do not wear a helmet. I have yet to hear or read about anyone cited for violating this law which has been in place for several years. This despite a few deaths on bicycles which might have been avoided by helmet usage. Not to raise the question of helmet laws yet again: I'd use all three of the above if they were not required. I DO raise the question of very different enforcement of three similar laws.

In BC, drunk driving laws have become much tougher in the last couple years: blow .05 BAC (0.08 is the norm) and you lose your license for three days, your car is impounded, etc. BIG expense and hassle. Blow 0.08, much bigger expense and I believe 90 days you can not drive. I believe it is pretty much accepted that using a hand-held cellphone while driving is as predictive of an accident as driving with a .08 BAC. Driving while texting is equivalent to driving dead drunk. So, why not some few days where THESE laws become the priority for LEO's? (I expect the penalties are not even close to the DUI penalties in any jurisdiction, but SOME enforcement would be a good start.)

To answer your question about LEO supervision, it seemed that decisions as to where enforcement emphasis would exist was a convuluted equation involving what the Mayor and Common ( or "Comedy") Council wanted, plus the philosophy of the sitting Chief, and the Judiciary. Often Judges would complain to the DA's office that we were "cluttering up their courts with frivolous infractions" like speeding, red light violations and failure to signal. At times, it became a very frustrating career, to say the least.

Many of us always said that the "bad guys on the street were a piece of cake compared to the Brass in the department, and the politics."

Like I've said before: In the absence of adequate enforcement (which is not about passing an abundance of new, feel-good ordinances - it's about copious numbers of enforcers out there!), most drivers have lost their fear of breaking the law.

My second issue is: how come you didn't immigrate to Wisconsin and become my Chief?! I think you'd of made a good one! :thumb
 
Maybe a can o worms..

How much does fear of a charge of racial bias against LEO play in to lack of enforcement?
 
By far the predominant texting person around me is white and knows its against the law & still does it anyway. Like already said, many people these days simply don't respect the law & the race card isn't looming large in that equation. Lexington,KY has a "DON'T TEXT" VW Beetle(donated by the VW/BMW dealer) that's painted B&W with blue lights & a lady officer assigned full time and "they" drive right by it texting away! :scratch
 
The more things change the more they stay the same; holds true with the rules of riding. Lkchris is right.

rant on-

I received my first motorcycle license in WI by filling out a form and forking over a bit of pocket change. During my time in college in MN I picked up a chauffeur license the same way. Then when the law changed to break down into classes I ticked the Class A box because I moved semi trailers in a parking lot for one of my part time jobs. I was transferred to SD in the late 70s when it finally became a law that you had to signal your turns. A couple of years ago I was riding in US 6 in SW Iowa and was run off the road by someone who was leaning over in the cab of their pickup to get something of the floor(at least that is my guess). This took place a few miles away from the site of a fatal crash friends were involved in over forty years earlier. Same reason: the driver causing the accident dropped something wandered into on coming traffic taking out two cars, killing one person and sending my friends to the hospital for an extended stay. In my case I just had to clean the ditch weed and corn from my unexpected (yet prepared for) excursion.

Yes I support tougher licensing requirements and more training. Yet how much time and money is used training pilots and yet crashes due to pilot error have been decreased but not eliminated.

Yes I support banning texting and cell phones on the road at the same time I see drivers and riders demanding more and more technology in and on their vehicles. I rented a car on a recent trip that had as much or more computing power in the dashboard than I have on my desk right now. You need go no farther than this forum to find thread after thread asking how to mount and use cameras,GPS, blue tooth devices, intercoms, mount tablets etc for use on the fly.

Yes, I support (for use on others :d) more law enforcement. Yet at any time who are the laws written for and the people LEOs are enforcing the draconian laws on? The same idiots that lkchris warned us to watch out for in the second post.

pogo_.jpg


rant off
 
Excellent discussion.....

This thread re-affirms my sig line on my "motorcycle" screen name (BMWShep@bellsouth.net)......it says:

"Don't even think for a moment, the people you share the roadways with live, drive, or think like an attentive motorcyclist......they DON'T!!!!!"

:banghead
 

Mika,

Like you, I got my MC license by riding a Figure 8 in the Lock Haven PA City Hall parking lot when I was a senior in high school. The most notable event of the experience was the lecture from the policeman on why I should be in class instead of doing this foolishness. Although he didn't know me, it was nice to know that he cared enough to point out the "right way" to some kid.

In any case, learning to drive and living in rural America, doesn't prepare you for the suburban and urban congestion that most of the population lives with. It's a big country, but the population is centered near the jobs. Driving in those conditions requires a level of focus that is exhausting and rarely pleasurable.

I agree with Ken than more LEO's are needed for patrol, but they need consistent direction on what laws should enforced (just like getting the "boss" to prioritize the company policies). But, considering the political climate, hiring more police or paying their earned pensions is unlikely.

So, as they say, watch out for the other guy..............He's bigger.
 
As to hiring(or not) more LEO's: here in my very rural part of E. KY we got more sheriff's deputies from the Homeland Security $$$. It's ruined my retirement! I retired the year of 9/11 & now I have to worry about the terrorists coming to Appalachia? The Sheriff also bought a new Camry Hybrid with some of that Homeland Security largess.:doh
 
.................. The Sheriff also bought a new Camry Hybrid with some of that Homeland Security largess.:doh


Hey around here we bought some portable kennels, I think with FEMA $$, so in the event of a flood we can transport animals. I will bight my tongue on further comment about Government spending.
 
As to hiring(or not) more LEO's: here in my very rural part of E. KY we got more sheriff's deputies from the Homeland Security $$$. It's ruined my retirement! I retired the year of 9/11 & now I have to worry about the terrorists coming to Appalachia? The Sheriff also bought a new Camry Hybrid with some of that Homeland Security largess.:doh

Isn't it good that they decided to maximize the savings in fuel costs?
 
Until we stop issuing licenses like the prize in a cracker jack box, and start pulling them for poor, distracted and dangerous driving it will only get worse. We have people who don't have a clue, passing their bad habits on to the next generation, in a reverse Darwinism.

Maybe if we took away the guardrails, airbags, seat belts etc, drivers would get better or die, just like us riders.

To easy to obtain a driver's license and drive on busy, congested streets with other drivers in close proximity.

On the other hand look at pilot licensing at least in the U.S.. You spend THOUSANDS on training for a regulated minimum number of hours, pay to take your written test, pay to take your oral and practical exam, get a physical every few years (dependent on age and class of license) and pay an instructor every two years for a flight review. Then mostly fly in a sky where collision with another aircraft (or anything) is pretty minimal except for in congested airspace and near airports.

Get a driver's license? Show up, pay your fee, take a short written test, take a short driving test (sometimes in a parking lot), then take an eye test (maybe) to renew your license every 4-10 years. As it is, I can renew my driver's license online with a debit or credit card and nothing more.
 
How much does fear of a charge of racial bias against LEO play in to lack of enforcement?

It didn't with me. I had an African American driver tell an African American judge that the only reason I stopped him was because he was a "black male in a white residential area". The courtroom snickered at the judges response: "This reminds me to compliment the Atlanta Police Department on the quality of the officers they hire. Because you're telling me that they can tell the race and sex of the driver of a car coming at them on a 4 lane state highway at 70 mph in a 45 mph zone, and do it in the dark!" For some reason, nearly everyone else plead guilty that day. :laugh
 
In Arizona, your driver's license expires on your 65th birthday (mine expires in Oct) no matter what age you are when you first get it. My kids say they sometimes get grief when they show their license, like to the TSA outside of AZ, and the person sees that it expires in 40 years or so. You do have to go in every 12 years (IIRC) to get a new picture and I think you have to take an eye test then too. The eye test is pretty ridiculous too...something like 20/70 in one eye. Kind of a joke, really.
 
Back
Top