So I went and test rode a Victory Judge today....

R1200RClassic said:

And all I can say is "yawn"...

For $14K base price, I expected a lot more ... and for 1700+ cc, I expected a lot better zing! The best thing that came from my test ride is a reinforcement of my original decision to buy the R1200R..

I went to this free ride event with a friend who's been torn between a Harley and Victory for the past year... I told him it's easy... just buy a BMW!

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So your point is !!!!. I've owned both BMW R1100R's and Harleys ( currently own a Harley & Airhead ). BMW & Harley are totally different bikes and it doesn't make much sense to compare either one against each other. They both have their good & bad points.

Must have been a quiet day.

cycleman2 said:

So your point is !!!!. I've owned both BMW R1100R's and Harleys ( currently own a Harley & Airhead ). BMW & Harley are totally different bikes and it doesn't make much sense to compare either one against each other. They both have their good & bad points.

Must have been a quiet day.

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None sense, they're both motorcycles and both "naked type" standed bikes.

Everything from the hardware and materials to the way it rode was vastly inferior. Braking, handling, acceleration, etc. and please don't compare an 1100 or airhead to the current r1200's. Not even close in just about every way.

So to answer your question about what my point was. The Judge sucked.

airhead?

R1200RClassic said:

and please don't compare an 1100 airhead to the current r1200's. Not even close in just about every way.

So to answer your question about what my point was. The Judge sucked.

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I have never seen an 1100cc airhead. Where have I been?
It is kind of rediculous to compare the Judge to an R1200. The Judge is all about styling (that I don't like). The R1200 is all about riding. To a person who's main concern is how he/she looks on a bike, a BMW would look awful. A serious rider would never appreciate a bike that is more suited to finding a reflection in a glass so you can admire yourself or your bike.

That said I really feel that Victory had a chance to build a great touring motorcycle but decided that the Arlen Ness styling was more important than the touring function of the motorcycle. However the new Crossroads and Crosstour models are an improvement.

I guess the key to being happy with a motorcycle is matching the bike to your needs.
My problem is I like too many motorcycles that my wife says I don't need!

Way back in the late 70's or so I was riding motocross. 250. L ocal stuff, nothing fancy. At a track in NC Brad Lackey showed up to promo for his team. He ca me out on a 250 "professionally prepped" or at least that was our excuse, and dogged us all in practice session. Had never seen the track. And made it look effortless. Some folks just got it

cycleman2 said:

So your point is !!!!. I've owned both BMW R1100R's and Harleys ( currently own a Harley & Airhead ). BMW & Harley are totally different bikes and it doesn't make much sense to compare either one against each other. They both have their good & bad points.

Must have been a quiet day.

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With the exception of two V-Rod models and the XR-1200, every single aspect of a Harley Davidson is inferior to a BMW motorcycle. Everything, without exception. Look, I've ridden Dynas, baggers, Sportsters and V-Rods (I own two Street Rods). The R-1200RT is so superior to any traditional cruiser or touring bike Harley makes comparing a Harley to the R-12 is laughable. Anyone who does is so far gone you can't take them seriously. No, really.

Heck, the R-1200RT is lighter, has more power and more cornering clearance than the XR-1200. How pathetic that Harley's best performing model is humiliated by a fully faired and saddlebag equipped touring bike.

Buying a traditional Harley, you're buying an image, and you are sacrificing function to (maybe) look good, and you don't look good to everyone. Those of us who know the difference are silently, and sometimes not silently, laughing at you. What a fool to toss good money at such garbage.

42906 said:

With the exception of two V-Rod models and the XR-1200, every single aspect of a Harley Davidson is inferior to a BMW motorcycle. Everything, without exception. Look, I've ridden Dynas, baggers, Sportsters and V-Rods (I own two Street Rods). The R-1200RT is so superior to any traditional cruiser or touring bike Harley makes comparing a Harley to the R-12 is laughable. Anyone who does is so far gone you can't take them seriously. No, really.

Heck, the R-1200RT is lighter, has more power and more cornering clearance than the XR-1200. How pathetic that Harley's best performing model is humiliated by a fully faired and saddlebag equipped touring bike.

Buying a traditional Harley, you're buying an image, and you are sacrificing function to (maybe) look good, and you don't look good to everyone. Those of us who know the difference are silently, and sometimes not silently, laughing at you. What a fool to toss good money at such garbage.

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best way for me to put it would be like taking a 1978 Cadillac Eldorado vs a 2012 BMW M5... it's that dramatic.

dpmonk said:

I have never seen an 1100cc airhead. Where have I been?

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the missing conjunction there was "or"

42906 said:

With the exception of two V-Rod models and the XR-1200, every single aspect of a Harley Davidson is inferior to a BMW motorcycle. Everything, without exception. Look, I've ridden Dynas, baggers, Sportsters and V-Rods (I own two Street Rods). The R-1200RT is so superior to any traditional cruiser or touring bike Harley makes comparing a Harley to the R-12 is laughable. Anyone who does is so far gone you can't take them seriously. No, really.

Heck, the R-1200RT is lighter, has more power and more cornering clearance than the XR-1200. How pathetic that Harley's best performing model is humiliated by a fully faired and saddlebag equipped touring bike.

Buying a traditional Harley, you're buying an image, and you are sacrificing function to (maybe) look good, and you don't look good to everyone. Those of us who know the difference are silently, and sometimes not silently, laughing at you. What a fool to toss good money at such garbage.

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Exactly the reason for not comparing a Harley & a BMW R1200. It's pointless. Both brands of bikes are aimed at totally different riders and neither bike is garbage and believe me 50+ % market share is not all about image. I like both Harley & BMW bikes but for different reasons. In my part of the world I see way more HD bikes touring on the highway than any other brand of bike.

I never have gotten the brand bashing thing, as to what you or I ride doesn't matter, what matters is that we both ride a motorcycle. Somewhere along the way that has gotten way off track.

I'm not your classic motorcycle rider, having come from a MSF background, wear the GATT, including full face helment all the time, ride a stock bike ( no loud pipes etc ). The reason I currently own and ride a HD Softail is that it is not top heavy when loaded two up ( important as I age & have limited inseam ) and it made me slow down and smell the roses as my wife says, probably the most important thing and there is no doubt it is a motorcycle that doesn't pretend to be something it isn't.

Ride what you want and respect other riders. There choice is their own and be thankfull there is no end of great motorcycles out there to ride.

Enough said - Ride safe.

+1 with Cycleman2.

I teach Riders Edge classes (Harley version of the MSF course) for our local Harley dealership. The interesting thing is that we have 12 active instructors, and only two have a Harley. That makes for some interesting discussions when two of us pull up on BMW's, me on the RT and Skip on the GS.

I get to ride the Harley's doing escort duty on demo days, and they are nice bikes but they are just not my kind of ride. I love the V-Rods, except for the foot-forward controls which I cannot stand.

The folks I ride with have everything from small Vespa scooters to full superbikes, and we all get along fine.

Our dealer make a point of noting that the motorcycle parking area is marked "Motorcycles Only" and not "Harley's Only". If you are on two wheels, you are welcome to park and visit.

All I can say is "yawn"...R1200RClassic

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Rider Magazine's testers preferred the Fat Bob, in their comparo.

...left me like a bad habit...42906

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The late Gordon Jennings used to pass sport bike riders on his Yamaha Venture Royale.

It's fun to try to hang with a faster rider for a few corners, after they pass you.

But just a few.

rinty said:

Rider Magazine's testers preferred the Fat Bob, in their comparo.



The late Gordon Jennings used to pass sport bike riders on his Yamaha Venture Royale.

It's fun to try to hang with a faster rider for a few corners, after they pass you.

But just a few.

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guys, guys, don't think I'm a complete idiot... I know the difference between a cruiser and a standard bike, etc.. and I can't fault someone for a preference for one over the other, much less if they chose a sport bike or tourer, the problem however is that the Judge is meant as a competitor to the standard bike market... it's not intended to be their "Cruiser" .. sort of like the Sportster from HD...

In the current issue of Ultimate Motorcycling they also review it and like it... but then they never dislike anything, however even they emphasize that it's a new direction for Victory intended to be less of a cruiser and more of a standard bike.. and having ridden it myself, it sticks in that category... My old Honda Shadow "Cruiser" felt more responsive in terms of handling, never mind my prior experiences with the Brutale or Speed Triple, both of which also ate it's lunch as "standard" bikes.

rinty said:

Rider Magazine's testers preferred the Fat Bob, in their comparo.



The late Gordon Jennings used to pass sport bike riders on his Yamaha Venture Royale.

It's fun to try to hang with a faster rider for a few corners, after they pass you.

But just a few.

Click to expand...

I have news for you. A Venture Royale was a darned fast and good handling bike in it's day. Hanging with the sport bikes of the era, remember, mid to late 1980's timeframe, wasn't all that hard to do on one. I swapped my K bike for a week with a friend who gave me his Venture and it was an eye opening experience. Oh, and you could put high end reservoir shocks on them too, unlike most other touring sleds of the era. I honestly liked the big Yamaha V-4 in that application better than in the V-Max with it's V-Boost nonsense. V-Boost didn't really make any more power, it just gave the impression of a big jump in power. The Venture's version of that engine was more refined and every bit as powerful.