Is Mexico Safe for Riders?

I sure know about the places in the US that should be avoided. I was a police officer in an urban city that most people wouldn't drive through after dark, maybe not even in daylight. But the original question was about Mexico being safe or not.

You do have to be careful when traveling away from home no matter where it is.
Years ago, my mother accompanied her sister who went to Miami FL for cancer treatment. They stayed downtown, in a fairly nice section of the city. In the morning, one of them went down to a nearby newspaper vending box and bought a paper. You can imagine their surprise, when on the front page of the paper was a photo of a murder victim lying on a sidewalk. The victim was lying directly in front of the front entrance to their hotel, the murder having occurred the night before, but early enough for the photo to make it into the morning paper!

Well we might as well ask is Canada safe to ride in?

I lived in Toronto for a year. On the radio one morning they were discussing that the metro area had seen 56 homicides in the previous year. I think Toronto metro area was about 6 million at the time. A great majority of the killings (40+) were what would generally be described as a crime of passion; husband-wife, boyfriend-girl friend or Beemer rider - Beemer dealer. I remember thinking to myself that 56 homicides was just a busy month in some of our murder centers of the time. I was not happy while living in Toronto, I could never be happy living in a city, but we felt safe being downtown after dark and riding the commuter trains at any time of the day. Beer sure was pricey tho.

Another wonderful trip to Rocky Point, Sonora Estado, Mexico was enjoyed by AZ Beemers/Southwest BMW MOA Forum, great eats/drinks and fun activities for 6 couples on 6 motocicletas to Celebrate my Miss Donna's Birthday. A full Ride Report will follow, once everyone sends in their pics. Photos below are from Karen and here's the roster of Attendees. We're riding to Mazatlan next year at this time!
Brian and Melanie: BMW K1600GTL
Don and Donna: K1600GT
Mike and Karen: K1600GTL
Phil and Paula: K1300GT
John and Loretta: BMW R1200RT
Dave and Sylvia: Yamaha FJR 1300

I Love my AZ Beemers MOA Club, we ride Everywhere: Mexico, Canada, Europe and You Name It!

I have avoided adding to this thread because the original question is one that either has no answer, or has so many answers as to be unanswerable. But I decided I would add a few comments.

I live 30 miles from Mexico if I were a bird, but about 90 miles by road to the closest legal crossing. I live among many people who have historically gone back and forth across the border routinely. Many now refuse to go, some still go regularly. Every year we see and talk to many BMW and other riders headed to or from Mexico.

I read here all the comments and they fall into two categories. "Mexico is not safe and I won't go" or "Of course Mexico is as safe as St. Louis or New Jersey, or wherever."

And of course, both extremes are wrong. As noted by some, situational awareness is important. Another important factor is the ability to at least understand the language. And an unmentioned factor is who can be trusted when the crap hits the fan.

Some people are already sufficiently familiar with Mexico, the language, the customs, and the people to be able to actually be situationally aware. Others are like a Kansas farm boy in New York City for the first time ever - totally unable to be situationally aware in an entirely new and alien environment.

(As an only remotely related aside, here in the desert and Big Bend National Park we see lots of urban dwellers, or folks from the lush green countryside so far out of their element and comfort zone as to be actually harzardous to their own health and lives.)

In most locations in the United States, if the crap starts to hit the fan in any way; a bit of chaos, an accident, etc. you can trust and rely on the police. If history tells us anything this is decidedly untrue in Mexico. Not that all the police are corrupt or bad - just that enough are that you can't count on anything.

So for me the bottom line is if you are one of those who are familiar with the country, the customs, the rudiments of the language, and how to be situationally aware in that environment you will be reasonably safe. If you are not - then you may well not be safe in Mexico, so if you go there should join and travel with someone or a group that is.

PGlaves said:

I have avoided adding to this thread because the original question is one that either has no answer, or has so many answers as to be unanswerable. But I decided I would add a few comments.

So for me the bottom line is if you are one of those who are familiar with the country, the customs, the rudiments of the language, and how to be situationally aware in that environment you will be reasonably safe. If you are not - then you may well not be safe in Mexico, so if you go there should join and travel with someone or a group that is.

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Excellent Words of Wisdom Pablo, Muchas Gracias! In the above AZ Beemers Group Photo in Post #84 everyone in that pic has at least 5K miles worth of riding in Mexico, in the case of bbolesaz and BeemerDonS we have 100K miles ridden South of the Border. On Saturday, February 21 of 2015 AZ Beemers is riding to Mazatlan, Sinaloa Estado; returning to Phoenix Sunday, March 1. At Thanksgiving I will post up all of the details for this trip under the Southwest Section, please join with AZB to learn firsthand the rules and customs of riding Mexico! Northern Snow Folks: We can find space to store your M/C trailers!

www.motodiscovery.com I also highly recommend using Skip Mascorro and MotoDiscovery, they operate outstanding tours of Mexico everyone really enjoys!

Ill go again and again, when the roads thaw out in another couple of weeks we will be launching. phrudo bay to the southern most tip of mexico, thats where we turn back. the most acute awareness wont save your but past that point. love the people down there though.

I'm not sure how much it's been discussed, if any, but recent posts prompt mentioning there's probably a difference in safety level of 6 couples together on 6 bikes and one solo rider all alone as well.

I don't know that I agree. For one thing, riding alone, I am not so conspicuous.
Here's a recent case. If there had been six there maybe there would be six deceased.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957583
Or, would he be any less dead, if he had others with him.
A sniper from a distance, or up close shot? The others may be witnesses, but may end up dead, too.
I remember a case, New York or New Jersey, a man hired someone to kill his wife or ex wife. When they did it there were 4 media network employees in a van nearby. All four died also. The case wouldn't have resolved but for the media demand to gov't officials to get the FBI involved.
I suspect in this high desert case local leo know who did it and eventually will get the responsible one.
dc

LDB said:

I'm not sure how much it's been discussed, if any, but recent posts prompt mentioning there's probably a difference in safety level of 6 couples together on 6 bikes and one solo rider all alone as well.

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I agree with you LDB, I rode to Guatemala City by myself in 1990 but I do not believe I would do that anymore! Safety in Numbers is a Safe Rule of Travel!

AZ Beemers are in the planning stages for a GS Dirt Bike Ride to Real de Catorce and Huasteca Potosina in April of 2015, if we can't get six-we just don't go!

akbeemer said:

Well we might as well ask is Canada safe to ride in?

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As far as riding itself goes, yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Some third world countries are much more dangerous to ride or drive in than the US.

Harry

The chart makes for some interesting thoughts when weighed against places where I've shared the road & developed a personal opinion.
Check out the Dominican Republic-wow! Whats different there than say Puerto Rico? Jamaica has some really bad roads, beat up cars & honking , aggressive drivers yet low rate of fatalities-maybe we need to consider that what matters is how many cars(3rd world implies less vehicles usually) are on what quality road in that country?
My best e.g. is Mexico where I've spent lots of road time, both bike & car & can assure you that the canyons are full of burned hulks of wrecked cars,trucks & buses! If you ever take the Cuota that runs over the mountain from Mexacali westward I defy you to count the "hulks over the side" & not become one too. Many Mexicans are skillful, safe drivers-Thank God! The rest are-OMG! They split lanes, pass on hills & curves, live with the rule "biggest vehicle wins mentality"(count the whole of the Americas into this notion IMO) and pretty much a dog eat dog place to hang out-on the roads, that is...
Ireland(aggressive drivers IMO) has a fairly low rate, similar to Jamaica where drivers are worse, as are roads. My final analysis is that there's way more to it than the numbers shown on that chart, much of which is beyond my knowledge base.
The adjustments we make as riders in those locales help to get us home for another day. Living in a rural area I'm reminded of this adjustment need each time I enter the "urban crazy race driver, lane switching, cutoff driving some of you live in on your commutes. Honestly it's an occasional "road slap in the face" to one who lives in a county with no red lights, no I-roads, no factories, no shopping centers, no suburbs, not many people,etc..

Yo quiero regresar a mexico

beemerdons said:

I agree with you LDB, I rode to Guatemala City by myself in 1990 but I do not believe I would do that anymore! Safety in Numbers is a Safe Rule of Travel!

AZ Beemers are in the planning stages for a GS Dirt Bike Ride to Real de Catorce and Huasteca Potosina in April of 2015, if we can't get six-we just don't go!

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Chuy,

How 'bout a GS trip in April 2014 ? I mean I'm interested in learning about your 2015 trip as your plans progress.

Mike

michaellmcc said:

Chuy,

How 'bout a GS trip in April 2015 ? I mean I'm interested in learning about your 2015 trip as your plans progress.

Mike

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Hola Mike, our AZ Beemers Club #89 is still actively working on the planning logistics of the April in 2015 GS Dirt Ride to Real de Catorce and on to Huasteca Potosina. As soon as I have more specific information I will post it up under the Southwest Section of our BMW MOA Forum.

We AZ Beemers have used MotoDiscovery on previous Mexico dirt expeditions for support and we will do this once again in April of 2015. We AZ Beemers have discovered over the years MD Owner Skip Mascorro can put together our dirt trips for less Dinero than we would spend!

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Muchas Gracias Skip, I'll let the M/C Dirt Donks at all 3 forums know that preparations are under way for this "Mother of All Mexico Dirt Bike Rides"!

-----Original Message-----
From: skip <skip@motodiscovery.com>
To: Don Stanley <beemerdons@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 26, 2013 10:21 am
Subject: Re: Hola Skip, do you think you'd be able to put together a promotional blurb on this Real de Catorce ride for my publication in April 2014?

Hello Don,

Great to hear from you. I did get your card and note on this.
I'm really excited about the prospects of this ride. The third night in Real de Catorce is good as there is a lot to do and see in the area.
Let me begin to lay our the itinerary on this and see if I can come up with something. The Huasteca is a treasure of great riding both on and off the pavement.
Let me confirm a few of the specifics:
start and end in McAllen, TX
duration between 10-12 days (the shorter the better for marketing reasons but I feel we shouldn't compromise the quality of the event so however much time it takes to do it right is what we should dedicate to it.)
ideal season to be safe should be early March though May...we'll be in high altiplano or sierras through most of this so heat shouldn't be a problem
light dual purpose, nothing too demanding or technical
I'll see how we can fit in Las Golondrinas as well.
Have a great Christmas Don...this is one I don't think I can miss so hope to share a road with you and Brian and the gang in 2015.

Saludos,
Skip Mascorro


On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Don Stanley <beemerdons@aol.com> wrote:
Hola Skip,

Just wanted to share a few thoughts from Brian Boles and Papa Chuy Viejo regarding proposed ride to Real de Catorce and Huasteca in April of 2015.

Do you think you would be able to put together a promotional blurb on this ride for my publication after the first of the year? When we went to Copper Canyon with MotoDiscovery I had 12 months lead time to promote the event.

If I could give Members of FJR Forum, AZ Beemers and FJRiders 12 months lead time, this increases chances guys could save money for the Catorce trip.

If memory serves me you required at least six participants to make the trip profitable, I believe I can generate at least ten riders from these three forums.

Since this is so far out time wise, I do not expect you to come up with any final pricing in 2014. If you could give us a definite number a year from now that would be great, I'll just reinforce we'll get a great deal from MotoDiscovery!

As BB and I previously mentioned, we definitely want a third night in Real.

Santiago was also a great scenic overnight stop, we would like to do it again.

We'd like to stay at Tamosopo in Huasteca Potosina, if you agree with this.

Cascadas el Meco, El Puente de Dios and Cascada de Minas are “must-sees”!

We know you'll put together a great Real de Catorce y Huasteca ride for us.

Adios mi Amigo,

Don Stanley
Chandler, AZ 85225
--
685 Persimmon Hill
Bulverde, TX 78163
Toll Free USA & Canada 1(800) 233-0564
PH (830) 438-7744
skip@motodiscovery.com
www.motodiscovery.com

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Yo quiero... Thanks, Beemerdons

Thanks very much for the information on the 2015 ride. Your and Skip's ideas sound great. You and I had previously corresponded about our Motodiscovery trips to San Miguel de Allende a few years ago. Having them initiate the planning for a light dual sport ride sounds like the right way to go.

I look forward to keeping in touch.

Mike

michaellmcc said:

Thanks very much for the information on the 2015 ride. Your and Skip's ideas sound great. You and I had previously corresponded about our Motodiscovery trips to San Miguel de Allende a few years ago. Having them initiate the planning for a light dual sport ride sounds like the right way to go.
I look forward to keeping in touch.
Mike

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Mike, Skip and I are firming up a routing and dates for this Huasteca / Potosina / Real de Catorce Trek. One of the places we'll be staying at is Hacienda Santa Engracia. The trip will occur over nine days sometime between April 15 and April 30 of 2015. I will start a separate thread under Southwest at Thanksgiving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiC4RYUMANc

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Hi Don,

We always have about six weeks of high intensity around here but it looks like we are seeing some "daylight" and I want to start putting together your Mexico ride for 2015.

My thought is to not concentrate on high miles but to settle in at a couple of places to serve as hubs for exploration or simply to absorb all that is great about Mexico. With that in mind I suggest something that looks a little like this:

Day 1. McAllen
Day 2. Hacienda Santa Engracia
Day 3. Tamasopo - here there are some loops and ride that can stay on pavement or we can mix it up.
Day 4. Tamasopo - a full day to take in the waterfalls and other explorations, a run down to Jalpan, even Xilitla.
Day 5. Real de Catorce - by the back way, hit the Colonial era Mescal distillery, etc.
Day 6. Real de Catorce - ride horses, hike the hills, ride the trails
Day 7. Real de Catorce - more of the same with some loop rides, exploring the old ghost towns.
Day 8. Santiago
Day 9 Exit at McAllen

This is a pretty map friendly event in that there are optional routes. We can get to Santiago by way of some dirt or stick to the pavement depending on the profile of the group.

We can extend the number of days but historically this will begin to eliminate those who still have time constraints and we can keep it at a reasonable price point. We'll go however you want. I do like the pace and the space this one has.
Welcome you feedback amigo.

Hope all is well in your world.

Saludos,
Skip Mascorro
FOUNDER

685 Persimmon Hill
Bulverde, TX 78163
Toll Free USA & Canada 1(800) 233-0564
PH (830) 438-7744
skip@motodiscovery.com
www.motodiscovery.com