Chain final drive is the only option now for mid-size BMWs.

DavidMTX · Dec 30, 2022

I recently got to ride 6 different BMW models on a tour, so I got the new bike bug.
My last 3 bikes in order:

R80RT
K75S
F800ST (current)

I do not have a need for a lot of power, and I like a lighter bike. Dreaming of a sport touring bike under 500 pounds with a belt drive. Guess I will stick with my F800ST for now.
Anyone else have the same dream?

Visian · Dec 31, 2022

DavidMTX said:
Anyone else have the same dream?

Yes, and in addition to a smaller, lighter ICE-powered bike (e.g. Honda CBX 500) I dream that BMW will find a way to electrify the old airhead twin. :nod

I think that F800ST is one of the best motos BMW ever delivered and they killed it so as not to cannibalize their R12xx RTs.

pglaves · Dec 31, 2022

The problem BMW and others have is that they are always "fighting the last war" so to speak. They design models a few years in advance based on the market as they then perceive that it will be. And that is based on their somewhat limited global view of markets and recent experience. And we of course view the models two or three or more years later than when design began from our somewhat unique viewpoints of the United States. And our views differ from those in much of Europe, India, China, Russia, Ukraine, and other worldly places.

bluehole · Dec 31, 2022

DavidMTX, I am with you. I have a couple of Airheads and have been thinking about selling the R100R and purchasing a more modern second ride (The R75/5 is not going anywhere

). When I look around, the lighter bikes are all chain drive. I have been on Airheads and Oilheads since 2005 and I do not miss all the cleaning, lubing and adjusting that comes with chain drive. The trip to and from the rally in Springfield would have been a bummer if I has to spend the end of my day lying on hot pavement under my bike. I saw a very nice Yamaha Tracer 900...just not sure about chain drive. The F900 is attractive, but...

Omega Man · Dec 31, 2022

I haven't found anything I have run any of the O-Ring chains on to be problematic in any fashion. Cleaning is a carefully worn sock on ones hand sprayed with a little WD-40 with a spray of Chain-Wax and a once in a while an adjustment.
If in 20,000 miles or so an owner thinks a change is needed, either by side play or sprockets looking "hooked", about $200.00 and it's all new. The only part of the chain replacement is having the chain-breaker and the rivet/link spinner although there is a great thread about the new master links that are easy install in the F-Twin index.
If someone hasn't run a chain in a while, when you do, I think you will find it no big deal unless it is hole-shots :burnout

and deep mud all the time.
OM

BC1100S · Dec 31, 2022

Chains, and chain lubes, have progressed A LOT in the past number of years. My sport bike has 200+ horsepower and I probably regularly use about 150-175 of them. I lightly lube the chain every 1,000km (to preserve the sprockets) and only need to adjust it about every 5,000km. Friends of mine will do a 2,000km trip and not lube the chain once. No issues for them either.

Don't let chain drive deter you from buying a fine motorcycle - no matter what brand.

Lastly, let our best intentions not turn this into a "What's the best chain lube?" thread or it will have me posting in the Grumpy Old Men thread.

Omega Man · Dec 31, 2022

BC1100S said:
Chains, and chain lubes, have progressed A LOT in the past number of years. My sport bike has 200+ horsepower and I probably regularly use about 150-175 of them. I lightly lube the chain every 1,000km (to preserve the sprockets) and only need to adjust it about every 5,000km. Friends of mine will do a 2,000km trip and not lube the chain once. No issues for them either.

Don't let chain drive deter you from buying a fine motorcycle - no matter what brand.

Lastly, let our best intentions not turn this into a "What's the best chain lube?" thread or it will have me posting in the Grumpy Old Men thread.

+1

chain-wax has the soothing scent that attracts the women at motorcycle events

om

orforester · Dec 31, 2022

I have ridden or own most of those similar bike, 2 K100RS, three R100's and one F800ST. I would rule out the K bike, too hot, (sorry Brick fans) and the R bikes are cool, but if I were touring and needed dependable I would take the F800St or GT, light belt drive, smooth power, good gas mileage, yada yada

RadioFlyer · Dec 31, 2022

orforester said:
I have ridden or own most of those similar bike, 2 K100RS, three R100's and one F800ST. I would rule out the K bike, too hot, (sorry Brick fans) and the R bikes are cool, but if I were touring and needed dependable I would take the F800St or GT, light belt drive, smooth power, good gas mileage, yada yada

And best of all a ROTAX engine.

bluehole · Dec 31, 2022

The last chain drive motorcycle I rode was a 1977 Suzuki. Sold it in the early 1980s. Sounds like chain drive has come a long way. It will certainly open up larger group of motorcycles to choose from.

dduelin · Dec 31, 2022

bluehole said:
The last chain drive motorcycle I rode was a 1977 Suzuki. Sold it in the early 1980s. Sounds like chain drive has come a long way. It will certainly open up larger group of motorcycles to choose from.

Yes, chains have come a long way in 45 years. I've had 3 chain driven bikes in the last 10 years totaling 85,000 miles and chain upkeep is minimal. Sometimes I don't have to adjust the chain in 8,000 miles (life of a tire) and other than wiping it clean with a shot of WD40 on a paper towel and a single stingy application of gear oil applied with a cut-down tooth brush every few days on tour that's it. On trips I pack a small container of said oil, a few folded blue shop towels, the cut-down toohbrush, and a travel size WD40 in a sandwich bag. With next to no actual "chain lube" on the chain the rear wheel stays as clean as my shaft driven bikes.

RadioFlyer · Dec 31, 2022

I think that BMW shaft drive is highly overrated. The conventional wisdom on the most recent shaft drives is to periodically lube the splines - a procedure that pretty much exceeds the degree of maintenance for a modern chain. When I went through my two decades of BMW ON extracting all the technical articles worth keeping I noticed that Paul Glave's Bench Wrenching articles on shaft final drives far exceeded that of any other topic. No manufacturer ever had to recall 500,000+ chain drives!

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

DavidMTX · Jan 1, 2023

Maybe it is time I try a chain drive again

Thanks for the feed back! It sounds like the level of chain service has droped a lot. I did like the F900XR I rode. Wish I had rode the 850GS. The R1250GS was amazing but it is a big bike.
I may get band at this point but I also like what I have read about the Triumph 900 tiger. :eek

BC1100S · Jan 1, 2023

Omega Man said:
chain-wax has the soothing scent that attracts the women at motorcycle events

om

And here I was thinking it was my rugged good looks.

motormike · Jan 1, 2023

A quality O-ring chain should last at least 20,000 miles if not a bit more. Of course, this is on a street bike. Riding off road in the dirt and sand is much harder on chains and sprockets. I rarely lubricate my chains, chain lube just gets slung all over the rear rim, then you do have a mess to clean up. Often just wipe the chain down with a bit of WD-40 on a rag to help prevent rust. When it does come time for a new chain and sprockets, I have the tools to break the chain and install a new one. Sometimes getting to and removing the front sprocket can be a pain. With chain-drive bikes, I'm a big fan of single-sided swing arms...No chain/axle alignment to fool with.

oldcamper · Jan 1, 2023

RadioFlyer said:
I think that shaft drive is highly overrated. The conventional wisdom on the most recent shaft drives is to periodically lube the splines - a procedure that pretty much exceeds the degree of maintenance for a modern chain. When I went through my two decades of BMW ON extracting all the technical articles worth keeping I noticed that Paul Glave's Bench Wrenching articles on shaft final drives far exceeded that of any other topic. No manufacturer ever had to recall 500,000+ chain drives!

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

A properly designed and manufactured final shaft drive can be nearly maintenance free. Cars and trucks have been using shaft drive for over 100 years, and most manufacturer’s designs are nearly bulletproof. The reason used 40 year old Honda cx500 final drives are so cheap on eBay is because nobody ever needs a replacement, they last nearly forever.

BMW shaft final drives were fairly reliable (except for wheel spline wear) until they came out with the double jointed paralever system. The paralever has handling advantages but has also had reliability issues directly related to the design. There were also manufacturing issues with K75 final drives that caused many repeated failures.

Given the choice, I’ll take shaft drive any day, car or bike. The trick is getting one that is both well designed and manufactured.

milo · Jan 1, 2023

DavidMTX said:
I recently got to ride 6 different BMW models on a tour, so I got the new bike bug.

.....I do not have a need for a lot of power, and I like a lighter bike. Dreaming of a sport touring bike under 500 pounds with a belt drive.......
Anyone else have the same dream?

Yes and for those who are looking for something more like the above look at Moto Guzzi. V7 850cc series starts at 490# wet with the V85TT around 520# wet. Air cooled, shaft drive, many with tubeless wheels, cruise control, good MPG and large tank, and LED lighting. A modern R100 and still made, for now.

RadioFlyer · Jan 1, 2023

OldCamper said:
A properly designed and manufactured final shaft drive can be nearly maintenance free. Cars and trucks have been using shaft drive for over 100 years, and most manufacturer’s designs are nearly bulletproof. The reason used 40 year old Honda cx500 final drives are so cheap on eBay is because nobody ever needs a replacement, they last nearly forever.

BMW shaft final drives were fairly reliable (except for wheel spline wear) until they came out with the double jointed paralever system. The paralever has handling advantages but has also had reliability issues directly related to the design. There were also manufacturing issues with K75 final drives that caused many repeated failures.

Given the choice, I’ll take shaft drive any day, car or bike. The trick is getting one that is both well designed and manufactured.

You are quite correct and I have edited my post accordingly.

motormike · Jan 1, 2023

OldCamper said:
Given the choice, I’ll take shaft drive any day, car or bike. .

That's good, a chain drive car might be hard to find. The last chain drive car was the Honda S600 back in the early 1960"s !!

41107 · Jan 11, 2023

The reason I bought a BMW back in the days was because it had a driveshaft and I will stick to it.In 1972 on my 750 Honda I had the chain snap on me and it jammed between the front sprocket and transmission case dumping all the engine oil.Sure chains over the years have gotten much better.It,s BMW saving money with a simple chain drive that's all.I was very happy when BMW only had so many bikes to pick from and they all had driveshafts plus much higher reliability.Maybe I am totally out of touch.Just my 2c

Chain final drive is the only option now for mid-size BMWs.

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