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Consumer reports
- Thread starter 71243
- Start date
akbeemer
SURVIVOR
Consumer Reports Survey: Harley-Davidson and BMW Less Reliable Than Japanese Motorcyc
From the Motor Sports Newswire
http://motorsportsnewswire.wordpress...ycles-3281311/
YONKERS, NY ÔÇô March 26, 2013 ÔÇô (Motor Sports Newswire) ÔÇô Harley-Davidson may be an iconic American maker of motorcycles but its bikes have been repair-prone, according to Consumer ReportsÔÇÖ first-ever motorcycle reliability survey, conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center.
About one in four owners of Harley-Davidson motorcycles reported experiencing a major problem in the previous four years. The full report is available at ConsumerReports.org and in the May issue of Consumer Reports, which hits newsstands on March 28.
BMW motorcycles were even less reliable than Harley-Davidsons with about one in three owners reporting problems in the previous four years. Only about one in ten Yamaha owners experienced issues during that time, followed closely Kawasaki and Honda.
ÔÇ£Reliability is one of many factors consumers might consider when purchasing a motorcycle. However, other factors like sculpted lines and rumbling engines also strike the right note among motorcyclists,ÔÇØ said Rik Paul , Auto Editor, Consumer Reports.
Despite the higher number of problems, Harley and BMW owners were among the most satisfied with their bikes. When asked whether, considering everything, they would buy their bike again if they had to do it over, 75 percent of Harley owners said definitely yes, closely followed by 74 percent of BMW owners and 72 percent of Honda owners. By contrast, only 63 and 60 percent of Yamaha and Kawasaki owners, respectively, were as emphatic in this subjective measure.
Among the bikes that needed repairs, survey respondents reporting having the most trouble with accessories, such as lights, instruments, switches, and radios (21 percent), brakes (20 percent), the electrical system (16 percent), and the fuel system (15 percent). Fortunately, most repairs were fairly inexpensive. Three quarters cost less than $200 out-of-pocket.
A welcome trend in motorcycle technology is the growing availability of antilock brakes (ABS). Bikes equipped with ABS are 37 percent less likely to be involved in a fatal crash, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. This critical feature is now standard on many high-end models and adds only a few hundred dollars to the price of more basic bikes ÔÇô an investment Consumer Reports believes to be worthwhile and potentially lifesaving.
About Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports is the worldÔÇÖs largest independent product-testing organization. Using its more than 50 labs, auto test center, and survey research center, the nonprofit rates thousands of products and services annually. Founded in 1936, Consumer Reports has over 8 million subscribers to its magazine, website and other publications. Its advocacy division, Consumers Union, works for health reform, food and product safety, financial reform, and other consumer issues in Washington, D.C., the states, and in the marketplace.
SOURCE: Consumer Reports
From the Motor Sports Newswire
http://motorsportsnewswire.wordpress...ycles-3281311/
YONKERS, NY ÔÇô March 26, 2013 ÔÇô (Motor Sports Newswire) ÔÇô Harley-Davidson may be an iconic American maker of motorcycles but its bikes have been repair-prone, according to Consumer ReportsÔÇÖ first-ever motorcycle reliability survey, conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center.
About one in four owners of Harley-Davidson motorcycles reported experiencing a major problem in the previous four years. The full report is available at ConsumerReports.org and in the May issue of Consumer Reports, which hits newsstands on March 28.
BMW motorcycles were even less reliable than Harley-Davidsons with about one in three owners reporting problems in the previous four years. Only about one in ten Yamaha owners experienced issues during that time, followed closely Kawasaki and Honda.
ÔÇ£Reliability is one of many factors consumers might consider when purchasing a motorcycle. However, other factors like sculpted lines and rumbling engines also strike the right note among motorcyclists,ÔÇØ said Rik Paul , Auto Editor, Consumer Reports.
Despite the higher number of problems, Harley and BMW owners were among the most satisfied with their bikes. When asked whether, considering everything, they would buy their bike again if they had to do it over, 75 percent of Harley owners said definitely yes, closely followed by 74 percent of BMW owners and 72 percent of Honda owners. By contrast, only 63 and 60 percent of Yamaha and Kawasaki owners, respectively, were as emphatic in this subjective measure.
Among the bikes that needed repairs, survey respondents reporting having the most trouble with accessories, such as lights, instruments, switches, and radios (21 percent), brakes (20 percent), the electrical system (16 percent), and the fuel system (15 percent). Fortunately, most repairs were fairly inexpensive. Three quarters cost less than $200 out-of-pocket.
A welcome trend in motorcycle technology is the growing availability of antilock brakes (ABS). Bikes equipped with ABS are 37 percent less likely to be involved in a fatal crash, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. This critical feature is now standard on many high-end models and adds only a few hundred dollars to the price of more basic bikes ÔÇô an investment Consumer Reports believes to be worthwhile and potentially lifesaving.
About Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports is the worldÔÇÖs largest independent product-testing organization. Using its more than 50 labs, auto test center, and survey research center, the nonprofit rates thousands of products and services annually. Founded in 1936, Consumer Reports has over 8 million subscribers to its magazine, website and other publications. Its advocacy division, Consumers Union, works for health reform, food and product safety, financial reform, and other consumer issues in Washington, D.C., the states, and in the marketplace.
SOURCE: Consumer Reports
Not at all.
osbornk
Old man in the mountains
If you follow Consumer Reports, you would have expected the rankings. Japanese products are chosen over products from anywhere else regardless of the facts.
Also, it looks like they just went by age with no adjustment for miles ridden. How many high mileage Yamaha and Kawasaki bikes do you see?
Besides, who is more particular and picky with their bikes than BMW and Harley riders?
I have owned a number of trucks over the last 25 years that were reliable, easy to work on, and for the most part, trouble free.
In the annual auto edition, they were always listed under "Vehicles to avoid".
Consumers Report is something I glance through at the store, but I won't subscribe to it again.
In the annual auto edition, they were always listed under "Vehicles to avoid".
Consumers Report is something I glance through at the store, but I won't subscribe to it again.
I admit I'm nor a CR reader as a rule, just found that report odd? One gauge I use when reading evaluations anywhere is who buys/has the most advertisements within the publication.
I am skeptical of most evaluations in the mainstream motorcycle mags. As such one of my favorites has been Motorcycle Consumer News. At one time it was said that they [bought] everything they compared/tested . Giving then no palm to grease.
I am skeptical of most evaluations in the mainstream motorcycle mags. As such one of my favorites has been Motorcycle Consumer News. At one time it was said that they [bought] everything they compared/tested . Giving then no palm to grease.
Yeh, I know the apples & oranges thing but I picked up a CR magazine in a docs office one time & they didn't like any of my favorite ice creams. I'm not real "into" others doing my thinking for me as they seem to make a practice of in spite of all the "research" on their end. They may not take advertising but that's no sure fire way to judge a product either. All hullabaloo aside, that's just flat wrong when it comes to ice cream.In fact, as I recall they tested a bunch of brands that are unobtanium in much of USA too.
As for a $200 repair being minor, well we know he's not from my generation nor on fixed income.
$200 is serious pocket money in my pants pocket. I swear, many these days look at $20 bucks like its one of the quarters that kids throw in the lunch room.
As for a $200 repair being minor, well we know he's not from my generation nor on fixed income.
$200 is serious pocket money in my pants pocket. I swear, many these days look at $20 bucks like its one of the quarters that kids throw in the lunch room.
chewbacca
New member
You're right on the money. Do you ask the neighbor's six year old about what kind of shotgun to buy to go hunt ducks??? CR may have someone that rides a MC but they aren't experts on the subject. The quote above is a good indicator that they didn't know enough about the subject to even ask the right questions for this type of comparison. What I do know is you stand just about the same chance of getting a lemon from any company you pick. Then again, every company has good and bad models. IMO, I would not put much faith in this comparison. Then again, I don't put much faith in MC Mag "shoot outs" either.
36654
New member
For the bulk of consumers......
For the bulk of consumer goods, I find CR to be a decent source of info. In addition, I don't find the CR article on motorcycles to be wrong. My typical advice to any novice interested in motorcycling is "buy a used Japanese bike and find out what you like". Afterwards, the novice can decide if the cost and hassle of a BMW are worth it.
For the bulk of consumer goods, I find CR to be a decent source of info. In addition, I don't find the CR article on motorcycles to be wrong. My typical advice to any novice interested in motorcycling is "buy a used Japanese bike and find out what you like". Afterwards, the novice can decide if the cost and hassle of a BMW are worth it.
lkchris
Active member
I'd postulate there's a lot more "buyer's remorse" among people spending big bucks than there is among those buying the cheap, generic stuff. Motorcycles are toys and there's apparently lots of guilt associated. Sombody could generate a Psychology PhD thesis just observing this and similar forums.
There's also lots of fantasy involved, for example the fantasy of owning a BMW when $200 represents a big repair bill. Heck, the standard maintenance on an F800ST includes a new $434 drive belt every 24K miles.
There's also lots of fantasy involved, for example the fantasy of owning a BMW when $200 represents a big repair bill. Heck, the standard maintenance on an F800ST includes a new $434 drive belt every 24K miles.
Yeah, but the guys at the motorcycle mags are experts on the subject.......aren't they ?
Japanese products generally have a reputation for reliability. They don't have a reputation for being interesting or having any character.
$434 for a drive belt ? P.T.'Barnum was right
dadayama
New member
I will say this... i sometimes use Consumer Reports... BUT you have to read all the print, they don't always evaluate things correctly.
I wont go into specifics but i once read an article were i was more of an expert then the reviewers and was perplexed at how misguided it was. When i say i was an expert i was, and they were not... and i had no brand affinity, but if you took there recommendation at face value you would have made a mistake.
That was that one time, or was it?... always makes me wonder about the stuff that i am not an expert at...
anyway... they have their place... buyer beware... AS ALWAYS>>>>
Peace
I wont go into specifics but i once read an article were i was more of an expert then the reviewers and was perplexed at how misguided it was. When i say i was an expert i was, and they were not... and i had no brand affinity, but if you took there recommendation at face value you would have made a mistake.
That was that one time, or was it?... always makes me wonder about the stuff that i am not an expert at...
anyway... they have their place... buyer beware... AS ALWAYS>>>>
Peace
marcopolo
Active member
I'd say most of the criticism posted here about Consumer Reports is way off base. CR was not evaluating the performance, or features, of any bike, or stating their preferences after road tests. They were simply reporting the results of a reliability survey they did of 4,400-odd motorcycle owners. I read the CR article, not just news reports on it, and CR was quite clear as to what they were reporting on. If you don't like the results, blame the owners for telling the truth. Better yet, blame the manufacturers who can't make a reliable product. As the old saying goes, don't shoot the messenger. It's too bad they only surveyed 4,400 (or whatever the exact number was) owners. CR's annual auto issue reports the results of a reliability survey of over one million owners. I'd say the results of this reliability survey of motorcycles generally track with the results of the auto reliability survey. That is, the Japanese produce the most reliable cars. The Europeans and Americans, not so much. To me, the real question is why can't BMW and HD produce bikes that are as reliable as Japanese bikes?
bdimon
BruceRT
It's what I expected
Consumer Reports always values practicality and value above excitement and coolness. When they test motorcycles, it's always been little 250s and scooters. They will never rate an exciting motorcycle above one that is cheap-to-own. Bargain-conscious consumers are their niche.
After all I heard from BMW riders and Iron Butt Rally reports, I bought my R1200RT in spite of its reputation for reliability. I love how it rides but do not expect that it will need as few repairs as my Gold Wing did. The cracks around my plastic fuel coupler emphasized that point. Are you surprised that Honda owners rate reliability high? Everything on my Gold Wing was thicker and over-engineered. It was also 300 pounds heavier than my Beemer. Can you imagine a BMW engineer suggesting that they make their bikes a hundred pounds heavier just to make sure it's tough?
As long as BMW values performance and exciting above toughness and practicality, Hondas will be more reliable. Also, we will keep buying BMWs instead of Hondas.
Consumer Reports always values practicality and value above excitement and coolness. When they test motorcycles, it's always been little 250s and scooters. They will never rate an exciting motorcycle above one that is cheap-to-own. Bargain-conscious consumers are their niche.
After all I heard from BMW riders and Iron Butt Rally reports, I bought my R1200RT in spite of its reputation for reliability. I love how it rides but do not expect that it will need as few repairs as my Gold Wing did. The cracks around my plastic fuel coupler emphasized that point. Are you surprised that Honda owners rate reliability high? Everything on my Gold Wing was thicker and over-engineered. It was also 300 pounds heavier than my Beemer. Can you imagine a BMW engineer suggesting that they make their bikes a hundred pounds heavier just to make sure it's tough?
As long as BMW values performance and exciting above toughness and practicality, Hondas will be more reliable. Also, we will keep buying BMWs instead of Hondas.
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