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What's up with MOA members nowdays?? Ripped off again...

Feedback systems do help but are not foolproof...

Feedback systems in buy/sell forums DO help, IMO. Look at eBay, with their feedback/ratings system. Folks can give negative feedback, receivers of such can respond, and all posts related to feedback can be viewed by others. I've seen feedback systems in place on other buy/sell forums as well- Audiogon, for example, comes to mind.

I admit I don't use the Flea Market enough to know who sells there, or who the buyers are. It might not be completely practical for use in a place where maybe a seller or buyer has a only a one time transaction... BUT such systems, when they ARE in place, DO work. Feedback systems protect everyone involved without a doubt.

IS this a useful and practical concept for us?
Mods? Anyone?

I once bought or should I say paid for a knife on Ebay made by the late "Jimmy Lile." This was about 6 years ago. The seller had excellent feedback and score. He said in the listing that he accepted cash in person or money order by mail. I had never sent a money order on ebay before but thought, "well he has an excellent feedback score, so it should be ok." I sent him the money order made out for $650. thinking that Ebay was safe and that I would receive my knife.

Well I never got that knife. After a month trading emails with this jerk and talking with Ebay reps, I filed complaint with Ebay, which went no where. Filed complaint with my local police which went no where. Finally found out that the Ebay account holder was actually dead and his sorry ass, no account brother was using the dead brothers computer, email and account running his scam on who knows how many people, until he disappeared. Yes, Ebay finally cancelled his account and it taught me a lesson; I only use paypal now.
 
FYI - If you have Paypal linked to a bank account, you can do direct payments with no fees to either party.



Postal Money Orders can be verified by your bank at time of deposit, western union can not.

My USPS money order point was made based on having been told by a person in enforcement that the "some" boogermen possess the machine to print them,thus they have the potential to be fraudulent.
My "suction device comment" was based on my personal bank linked PayPal account having been charged fees that are charged on certain transactions done via PayPal. I think I covered this "no fees type payment" in suggesting you can do a "gift" to another person. I am thinking that when merchandise isn't the basis for payment then the guarantees afforded under PayPal are not in effect? An answer to that question is required prior to payment! Not worth trying to say here all of what a visit to PayPal would cover in detail for interested parties? I was trying to make suggestions for those that might not generally be aware of a way to be further protected in today's bigger world.
 
Change those paypal passwords frequently........After my last Paypal security issue, the Paypal customer rep (unofficially) suggested that account passwords should be changed every month.
Several places I use online cancel the password every so often automatically. I guess I need to cut them some slack & stop cussing the need to add to the mountain of passwords needed to stay on top of cyber stuff?:laugh
FWIW, I've had to change my eBay password several times over the years as it got "compromised". I have also observed that just using eBay creates somewhat of a "trail" of junk email. Must be one heck of a market to somebody for viagra type pills? One time was simply my fault, at a time prior to owning & carrying a lap top with us when traveling & after using a public library computer in FL I failed to sign out of my account. Honestly, I think I made eye contact with the culprit from across the room when/where it happened. A few years working amongst criminals gives one a certain insight into the "know one when you see one" area.
Rainy day in KY...:lurk
 
I once bought or should I say paid for a knife on Ebay made by the late "Jimmy Lile." This was about 6 years ago. The seller had excellent feedback and score. He said in the listing that he accepted cash in person or money order by mail. I had never sent a money order on ebay before but thought, "well he has an excellent feedback score, so it should be ok." I sent him the money order made out for $650. thinking that Ebay was safe and that I would receive my knife.

Well I never got that knife. After a month trading emails with this jerk and talking with Ebay reps, I filed complaint with Ebay, which went no where. Filed complaint with my local police which went no where. Finally found out that the Ebay account holder was actually dead and his sorry ass, no account brother was using the dead brothers computer, email and account running his scam on who knows how many people, until he disappeared. Yes, Ebay finally cancelled his account and it taught me a lesson; I only use paypal now.

I have over 600/100% positives feedbacks on eBay & have had a few truly negative experiences there, but then again where in all of the world can you hunt for vintage MC parts like there? One such deal was in KY & after much time & effort on my part(included one failed & one successful LEO contact) I was able to directly help put the guy in jail through the Louisville,KY PD. More recently I was selling my late model car on eBay & after a zero feedback bidder made several bids,some as high bidder(and having visited that low feedback bidder department before-yuk!) I messaged the person and advised that they could call my # in the ad or bid would be canceled. After cancelling the bid I was stalked by this person via eBay messages & had to get them blocked over threatening stuff.
It is common on eBay to see a vintage MC for sale privately that "sells" then gets "sold again" several times before disappearing from the listings. In several cases of being sent the wrong merchandise,etc. I have filed claims and eBay has refunded my money each time except one where I allowed the seller to stretch me out past the date allowing a claim. IMO eBay had to start paying for others poor dealings or lose too many angry customers. All considered it's a place to use due caution but full of stuff not found elsewhere, make your choices.
 
Paypal

PAYPAL = Cheap Insurance.

If you are going to deal w/ anyone further than you want to drive/ride to... PAYPAL.
If they don't have/want PayPal? Take a Personal check and hold it 'til it clears. Really quite simple.

If anything online gives you pause as to validity... MOVE ON. A fool and his money... yadda yadda yadda...

Paypal is "free" if you send money as a "Gift". But if you do this often they will catch on to ya.
Do it if it's big bucks or your profit margin is close. Or just add 5% to what you wanted if sold locally...

Paypal is the way to go... Been w/ them and eBay (750+ feedback @ 100% rating) since 1999. 0 Losses.
 
PAYPAL = Cheap Insurance.

If you are going to deal w/ anyone further than you want to drive/ride to... PAYPAL.
If they don't have/want PayPal? Take a Personal check and hold it 'til it clears. Really quite simple.

If anything online gives you pause as to validity... MOVE ON. A fool and his money... yadda yadda yadda...

Paypal is "free" if you send money as a "Gift". But if you do this often they will catch on to ya.
Do it if it's big bucks or your profit margin is close. Or just add 5% to what you wanted if sold locally...

Paypal is the way to go... Been w/ them and eBay (750+ feedback @ 100% rating) since 1999. 0 Losses.

Paypal isn't foolproof, but it's better. I say have a wall of shame. If someone who does that is exposed to the light of day, they either won't be willing to do it again here or they will be shamed into owning up and taking care of it. If they violate more than once, revoke their membership.
 
Paypal isn't foolproof, but it's better.

Like I said... A Fool and his money... 14 years Zee-Row loss. I'd say it's fool proof.

And yes... I agree. You get burned by a member of the BMWMOA through it's forum...
Post all the pertinent info. Basically: name, city and member number. And transaction details.
Burned means money changed hands and no product/item/clearly not what was advertised.
NOT buyers remorse or your old lady found out.

Blatantly ripped off.
 
Like I said... A Fool and his money... 14 years Zee-Row loss. I'd say it's fool proof.

And yes... I agree. You get burned by a member of the BMWMOA through it's forum...
Post all the pertinent info. Basically: name, city and member number. And transaction details.
Burned means money changed hands and no product/item/clearly not what was advertised.
NOT buyers remorse or your old lady found out.

Blatantly ripped off.

+1
 
I'm all for posting the details when someone gets ripped off.
Earlier this year I bought a pair of gloves from someone well-known on the BMW Sport Touring forum. He stated he only briefly wore them to try them out and write a review of them and they were in fine condition. I received a worn out, color faded, curled-up POS pair of gloves. I have gloves I've worn for 3 full riding seasons that were in much better shape. He refused to accept any return or responsibility or even continue a discussion with me, said "Tough" and I posted the details in a forum posting. It was immediately removed by moderators and I was told- sorry, you can't post things like that. Never been back there since and I'll never go back.
 
Moderator here -

I'd rather not start a "wall of shame" or posting information about who ripped off who, etc. There are always two (three?) sides to a story and most times the other parties are not available to offer their side.

There has been discussion of adding a feature to the Flea Market for a rating system of buyers/sellers. I have made a note of that and will pass it on to the office for consideration. But for now, that's as far as this should go.

Remember, the Flea Market is completely separate to the Forum. There is also a disclaimer when you drop into the Flea Market. As always, buyer beware! Sorry that "stuff" happens, but it does. What happens in the Flea Market should stay in the Flea Market! Well, something like that.

Thanks...
 
Beware of the ratings idea as with eBay their are those that lie. Me & a few other people have had to eat dirt a few times to keep our rating up. I had this same scenario with car accidents & 3 sons driving. The other party is at fault & lies.
Lie e.g. :This week one son(now mid 30's) had a situ wherein the lady that backed into his new SUV door said he backed into her when in fact he was parked in a space & this long after the accident-his car is now repaired & weeks later. Insurer told him & he bargained for more money based on me having told him to beware of the Carfax report when he sells/trades as it would cost him twice for even a supposedly "free" repair! Allstate gave him another $1,600 in payoff to cover reduced value on a car that's fully repaired via a new door. FWIW, the same company that put the screws to his twin brother the yr before.
See, even with somewhat factual revelation , such as Carfax "sort of" provides, there are issues.
Ratings are a real touchy subject-I vote no to trying them. I also vote no to plastering names all over club forum of private individuals cause your fluffed.
 
I was interested to see "Dale Lehnert from minnapolis area" mentioned in this thread. I bought two items from him and neither was right. I attributed the mistake to BMW having identical part numbers for two different items, but after reading this thread, maybe I was wrong on that. I think one item was my mistake the second....
 
Beware of the ratings idea as with eBay their are those that lie. Me & a few other people have had to eat dirt a few times to keep our rating up.

Been there, Here is just one example of the Ebay ratings. We are downsizing to our last home & my wife has been selling her 45 rpm records on Ebay. At one time she had over 70,000 records that she has collected since the 50s. One purchaser from Europe complained & gave her a bad feedback because the 45 record had a large hole in the middle of it.
 
Been there, Here is just one example of the Ebay ratings. We are downsizing to our last home & my wife has been selling her 45 rpm records on Ebay. At one time she had over 70,000 records that she has collected since the 50s. One purchaser from Europe complained & gave her a bad feedback because the 45 record had a large hole in the middle of it.

It probably matched the one in his head.
 
Been there, Here is just one example of the Ebay ratings. We are downsizing to our last home & my wife has been selling her 45 rpm records on Ebay. At one time she had over 70,000 records that she has collected since the 50s. One purchaser from Europe complained & gave her a bad feedback because the 45 record had a large hole in the middle of it.

It is amazing. People report on the internet without ever having a clue as to whether they themselves have a clue. If you're going to become a reporter and say negative things about others you have a responsibility to verify your own story is accurate to begin with. But I guess that assumes the reporter in question has common sense and is intelligent enough to assess their own story. Good luck with that.

I was at a store where a gentleman gave us 2 stars out of 5. He admitted never having been to our store but he did see our reviews. He then stated that our reviews were overwhelmingly positive and then through some rather odd view points about those reviews determined we were submitting phony reviews ourselves. There is no doubt reviews should add value to a decision but given the fact that any given business will have both positive and negative how do you determine which is correct? Restaurants in particular... I feel bad for those folks. A diner goes there one time and doesn't like the food. Then through the miracle of becoming an internet reporter they tell the world how the food sucked and they should never ever go to that restaurant. Last time I looked you can rarely determine the quality of a business, food or otherwise, through a single visit. Single visit opinions may be doing nothing more than lighting up a few electrons on a computer screen.
 
If you add together enough of those single visits/opinions it becomes the reality that the food does likely suck. Best to read several, then decide. My BIL has more places he wont go out to eat than a cat has lives & some he does do regular I don't like.he eats so fast I honestly wonder how he knows what he had anyway! Nice guy, bad eater. Go figure on food? Just look at all the billions raked in by marginal fast food in this country! Bob Evans brought me a cold baked potato last night and had darkened from lying in wait to be trashed by me. Was also hard on outside & for 3/8" on the inside. I "traded it" for hot fries. Yes, I'll go back there again. Then you have the fact that many cannot or do not cook themselves & you wonder about the messengers/reviewers credibility?:dunno
 
Ebay and feedback

I tried to buy a truck using Ebay about 3 years ago...Called and talked to the seller who lived in Houston and I was in New Braunfels, Texas; it was about 250 miles to his location. It had a good carfax, no problems showing. Anyway, I liked the truck, the price was right and he sounded like a nice guy, so I sent him a deposit which he told me was non refundable unless the truck was not what he said it was in his information.

I took a retired mechanic friend and my brother along, filled up with some high priced gas and drove on down. The truck looked nice and drove well. My mechanic friend pointed out though that it had been in an accident and showed me where they repaired it. The seller said he didn't know anything about it and it didn't happen while he owned it. You could see that the pin stripping had not been put on the side of the bed which had been repaired. After I talked to the guy a while it seems he was not telling the whole truth but I don't know that for sure.

I wasn't exactly happy with it at that point but it seemed ok and the mechanic friend said it was ok also. I told the seller OK lets do it. He then said he would like me to come into his home office and give him a good feedback. I told him I could give the feedback when I got home. He told me that if I didn't want to give him a good feedback then he wouldn't sell me the truck and I would also lose my deposit. Well, I wanted to kill the guy right then but my brother told me it wasn't worth it, just to either buy it or lets go home. My brother is older than me and he was already tired and ready to go home. If it had not been a 500 mile round trip and me dragging on a friend and my brother, I would have turned and walked or got put in jail. But, I gave him what he wanted, paid for it and left. The truck was a good one and I was happy with that part. I wasn't happy with the fact I had to give this guy a good feedback and there is no way to change it after you do it. I figure this guy sells autos on the side and does this all the time to keep his feedback score high.

So, this feedback means nothing sometimes. In retrospect, I should have bought something closer to home and not given any deposit until I looked at the truck. My fault; I'm a dummy sometimes; I could have walked at any time and protested later to get my deposit back but that could have taken a long time.

DW
 
The whole feedback thing must be taken with the proverbial "grain of salt". I've read many reviews of truly crappy lodgings on TripAdvisor that raved on about what a great place it was for them.
Perhaps you could call the eBay people(there usually in India these days...) and complain about the truck guy:laugh:laugh:laugh
 
forum dealings

I must be very lucky. I saw a mirror on the forum. Contacted the seller who had no paypal. Sent a check for the price plus shipping. Got the mirror and a check for the amount of postage that was over paid.

I once posted that I needed a windscreen for my R1100RT. Some slick crook named Bud Meade sent me one for free. I tell you those BMW guys are a bunch of crooks.
 
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