Hit 3 times by other Bikers

I've been hit three times by other bikers in the past two years. The third time was last night. Two rear enders and one changing lanes into me. Fortunately, no one went down and damage was minor, to me (not so for the other guy) but it is getting annoying. I hate to say it, but all the bikes that hit me are HD. The rear enders always happen when merging from a parking lot onto the main roadway. I have the factory tail light and the hyper-lites, so I know they can see me. Just not looking.

Any thoughts?

pat3147 said:

I've been hit three times by other bikers in the past two years. The third time was last night. Two rear enders and one changing lanes into me. Fortunately, no one went down and damage was minor, to me (not so for the other guy) but it is getting annoying. I hate to say it, but all the bikes that hit me are HD. The rear enders always happen when merging from a parking lot onto the main roadway. I have the factory tail light and the hyper-lites, so I know they can see me. Just not looking.

Any thoughts?

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With all due respect, you need to ride with better riders, or insist on going last. Three times is ridiculous.

Welcome to the forum! That's a bummer for this to happen. What has been the conversation like when these incidents happen? How apologetic are the people who have hit you? What are the lessons that they and you have come away with when this happens? That's where I'd start...look at the takeaways from the situations.

Some more detail would be helpful

Pat,

Please give some more details about yourself, experience, riding preferences, where you live, bike you ride, how long on a BMW, etc. I know you are new to posting on the forum but have you been lurking and reading about this culture? It sounds like you are conscious of additional exposure to rear ending because of hyper-lights did you install or did a previous owner? Have you had any training in group riding ? I would be really wondering what was going on too, as this to me is the most vulnerable of crash types. It sounds like you understand that almost all crashes are preventable and want to know what you can do to prevent recurrence. Thanks for posting oftentimes it is difficult to disclose crashes.

Chris

It would seem to me, based on your description of the accidents, you are riding with very inexperienced riders. Hitting someone when pulling out of a parking lot is a pretty typical accident for an inexperienced rider whose having a difficult time with situational awareness...same with pulling into another rider. Are these long time friends or just a casual local riding group? Either way, I would do one of two things: 1) quit riding with the group. Personally, I don't ride in groups of more than 2-3 riders and ONLY if I know them very well and am comfortable they have advanced skill levels and 2) if these are good friends and you want to help them develop into better riders, stay in the back of the pack. You will likely have to ride more conservatively than you might prefer, but it gives you an opportunity to observe the groups riding behavior, stay out of the way of mistakes and maybe offer some safe riding tips.

Welcome to the forum and I hope you're able to figure out your situation.

Pat didn't specifically say he was "riding with" them, but that's only part of the picture.

Unfortunately, it is too (darned) easy to get a driver's license in this country. There are many people out there who shouldn't even be on a bicycle, and vehicles that shouldn't be on the road. As densely populated as my area is, I see multiple idiots every day (and I'm not perfect either).

To paint with a rather broad brush: It seems pretty common also that new or returning riders are on bikes that don't match either their skill levels or their physiques. Maybe they decided to enter a second childhood, maybe they just retired and got a big check to play with, doesn't matter... Many new riders equate "motorcycle" to "Harley"; I also still hear "Buy American!" Nice sentiment, but these folks really just don't get the term "outsourcing". Many claim "Harley's best, **** the rest" - but since they haven't ever ridden anything else, that alone makes them uniquely UNqualified to make such a claim.
(And let me add that I have owned two HDs, have ridden quite a few others, and will ride with friends with HDs with Zero issues. We do harass each other at any opportunity - but we are FRIENDS. "Hey Paul, is that little thing running??" "Hey Joe, you wanna bet your Pink on it?")

Regardless of all other factors, your Number One Priority is to watch out for yourself.

Pauls1150 said:

Unfortunately, it is too (darned) easy to get a driver's license in this country. There are many people out there who shouldn't even be on a bicycle, and vehicles that shouldn't be on the road. As densely populated as my area is, I see multiple idiots every day (and I'm not perfect either).

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I have been saying that for years! Too many fools that shouldn't even own anything motorized, let alone pretend to be in control of it...

I may be the odd man out here but is the OP doing something which has those following running into him? I don't know the context or details of his rear-enders or other "unexpected interfaces" and am just askin' the question.

RIDERR1150GSADV said:

I have been saying that for years! Too many fools that shouldn't even own anything motorized, let alone pretend to be in control of it...

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Just wanted to add an "agree" to this sentiment. Like many Americans, when I first got to Germany I thought "Wow! These people are CRAZY!" In time you realize that no, they're just trained and virtually everyone follows the same rules every time. And, it works.

REDC650GT said:

Pat,

Please give some more details about yourself, experience, riding preferences, where you live, bike you ride, how long on a BMW, etc. I know you are new to posting on the forum but have you been lurking and reading about this culture? It sounds like you are conscious of additional exposure to rear ending because of hyper-lights did you install or did a previous owner? Have you had any training in group riding ? I would be really wondering what was going on too, as this to me is the most vulnerable of crash types. It sounds like you understand that almost all crashes are preventable and want to know what you can do to prevent recurrence. Thanks for posting oftentimes it is difficult to disclose crashes.

Chris

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Chris,

All good questions. I'm new to he forum, but this is my second BMW R1200Rt and now I have a K1600GTL. I switched from HD several years ago. Actually, I was a motor cop for 10 years and recertified last year, but retired now. Lots of experience riding with others. I was never hit nor did I hit anyone on a police bike. I put the hyper-lites on myself and I get people stopping a respectable distance from me with these lights.

I think the other folks don't look forward, but rather look to the left to see if they can merge without stopping. They forget to look at the bike in front of them...Inexperience? skill level? Inattention? All the above?

PGlaves said:

With all due respect, you need to ride with better riders, or insist on going last. Three times is ridiculous.

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I agree...

BC1100S said:

I may be the odd man out here but is the OP doing something which has those following running into him? I don't know the context or details of his rear-enders or other "unexpected interfaces" and am just askin' the question.

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Twice I was exiting a parking lot. I pulled out of my parking spot and rode to the exit. I stop at the sidewalk and check traffic and them turn when traffic is clear. I don't do rolling stops when exiting parking lots. Too many hazards to roll out of a parking lot. I think some folks can't ride slow and have too heavy of a bike to control. They don't like to stop for fear of a tip over, so they keep rolling.

pat3147 said:

I don't do rolling stops when exiting parking lots. Too many hazards to roll out of a parking lot.

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Thanks for the clarification.

Too many people disregard the hazards which are evident to others.

I am with PowWow. I never ride with groups. In my opinion, motorcycling is dangerous enough paying attention to traffic, road surface and all the other variables we contend with. Adding a collection of people in front of me setting my pace, and trying to keep track of what the people in my rear view mirror are doing just adds another layer of hazard that I am unwilling to tolerate. I do occasionally ride with another rider, but that is the limit on group size and that is actually pretty rare. Most of my mileage is solo.

BlueWaterCooled said:

I am with PowWow. I never ride with groups. In my opinion, motorcycling is dangerous enough paying attention to traffic, road surface and all the other variables we contend with. Adding a collection of people in front of me setting my pace, and trying to keep track of what the people in my rear view mirror are doing just adds another layer of hazard that I am unwilling to tolerate. I do occasionally ride with another rider, but that is the limit on group size and that is actually pretty rare. Most of my mileage is solo.

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What he said. I ride with one other guy in Europe who is a far better rider than me.

hit from behind

Happened to me once. By someone I have known my entire life. To be fair, he hadn't been riding all that long when it happened. It was an intersection with a turning lane but no run out lane. I stopped because my head doesn't swivel so good anymore. I am sure he was looking at the traffic in the lane we were merging into and didn't see me stop. He was not on a BMW and his brakes were not as good. We have ridden many miles since with no problems. He knows how I approach an intersection now and we are both more aware how the other rides. I will always ride behind someone I do not know well.

And I did it once. So even we critics are not imume. Out of gas station up a gravel hill to the highway. Voni looks and stops for oncoming traffic. Paul looks and fails to stop. Bent Krauser bag. Fixed. On we went.

I won't ride 'in formation' ever. Whenever I see 4 or 5+ people riding all in relative close proximity to each other all I can see is a mishap waiting to happen. It's very common here amongst the chopper/ape-hanger crowd who while riding staggered they often literally share a single lane by being significantly overlapped with each other. Nuts. In a recent study of rear end collisions involving motorcycle v other vehicle it turns out the motorcyclist runs into what's in front of them twice as often as the motorcyclist is rear-ended by another vehicle. That can only come from following too close and then not looking at what's in front of you while still moving forward. The closer you are to anything in front of you the more critical it becomes to not take your eyes away from what's in front of you even for a fraction of a second. The two most useful tips for me for survival out there are keeping my gaze out far enough so I have more time to react, and literally staying as far from all other traffic (including other riders if you're in a group) as possible no matter where I am and no matter what kind of road I'm on. When I pass cars/trucks I will get completely across the oncoming lane up near the far left side white line and ride so that I have maximum space between me and the vehicle I'm passing, and pass quickly. In undivided 2 lanes roads I'll be on the right 3rd of my lane when oncoming traffic appears. You never know when that car/truck/bike will have a stroke and veer off into your lane so at least I will have a fraction of a second more to work with. Round-abouts are particularly risk prone because people are timing their merge and so will take their eyes off what's in front of them while doing that. This happened to me where I needed to slow to time my merge and the car behind me wasn't stopped so I laid on my loud tri-horn and fortunately it woke up the driver in time and he stopped, or so that's what appeared to have happened thankfully.

When I ride with another person I tell him that if it matters which part of the lane I am in then he is too close. Think of me as a semi; I am entitled to the entire lane and I use it. Most of my riding is with Annie and it is not uncommon for us to be 1/4 mile apart. The wisdom of maintaining a safe distance was demonstrated two years ago when Annie was behind me when I hit a deer in Idaho and half of the animal was left in the lane.

A few years ago there was an accident in the Anchorage area that showed the danger of close formation riding. Two middle age couples riding four bikes in close formation. A car is in the opposing lane prepared to make a left turn. The driver sees the bikes and waits, however, the turning car is rear-ended and pushed rapidly in front of the bikes. All four riders hit the car; three deceased one badly injured. I can understand how rider one could not avoid the impact, but the impact of 2,3 & 4 could have been avoided with better riding practices.

akbeemer said:

When I ride with another person I tell him that if it matters which part of the lane I am in then he is too close. Think of me as a semi; I am entitled to the entire lane and I use it. Most of my riding is with Annie and it is not uncommon for us to be 1/4 mile apart. The wisdom of maintaining a safe distance was demonstrated two years ago when Annie was behind me when I hit a deer in Idaho and half of the animal was left in the lane.

A few years ago there was an accident in the Anchorage area that showed the danger of close formation riding. Two middle age couples riding four bikes in close formation. A car is in the opposing lane prepared to make a left turn. The driver sees the bikes and waits, however, the turning car is rear-ended and pushed rapidly in front of the bikes. All four riders hit the car; three deceased one badly injured. I can understand how rider one could not avoid the impact, but the impact of 2,3 & 4 could have been avoided with better riding practices.

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Very well said, all of it. I'm not sure where it came from but close formation riding adds considerable risk while offering precious little in return save cutting down the odds of getting separated from your group. With your up to 1/4 mile separation are you using intercoms?