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Cam Timing Check On 2017 RT

potterke

New member
I'm about to perform the 12,000 mile service. I wanted to also check the cam timing while I was checking the valve clearance. However, I can't find the alignment pin - TDC, # 83302327790. I can find all of the other tools. I know you can find TDC without the alignment tool, but can you adjust the cam timing without having the alignment pin to lock the flywheel in place so you can loosen the bolts on the cams? I have called about ten dealers/stores looking for the tool. I'm told that there are non in the US and Germany and they are on back order without an ETA. Has anyone else had an experience like this with finding the tool, any suggestions?
 
With respect, I’m not sure if you should worry about this after only 12k miles.

I think this might be the perfect time to check the cam timing IF it hasn't been done previously. If it is off at the factory it remains off until corrected.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. I will continue to look around and perhaps give Boxflyer a shout.

Davemoto, appreciate the offer, but I'm not located near No Va.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. I will continue to look around and perhaps give Boxflyer a shout.

Davemoto, appreciate the offer, but I'm not located near No Va.

Of the 35 or so 1200's I have checked at least 85% were off. That is GS/GSA/RT included.

Now it is a go, or no go, with the cam alignment jig so some would barley not go on the jig, and to others that were not even close. But in this situation if the jig does not go on it is out.

The other biggie is the cam position sensor on the left side. That has been off to some degree on almost all the bikes I have checked.

camshaft+sensor.jpg


IMHO I would do it or have it done so you know.

I am very paranoid over the cam wear issue so every 6K I check my cam timing, inspect my cam lobes and check valves. Lot of work for a 6K service but I have the time and I love spinning wrenches.

I had my new 17.5 GS open at 300 miles and the cam timing and cam position sensor was off. As a bonus I found every exhaust valve at the low end of the scale. I watched them until my 12K service and replaced all exhaust shims for a looser fit.

I am sure you are fine but when something with a check of it goes on, or does not go on, then IMHO it needs to be checked and corrected if need be.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. I will continue to look around and perhaps give Boxflyer a shout.

Davemoto, appreciate the offer, but I'm not located near No Va.

Where are you located roughly? If not too far from me I would travel to you and do it. It needs to be cold obviously so running it somewhere is not a good thing unless it can sit there until the next day and be cold.

It is a good learning experience and you can see what everything is doing when using the tools. It is a good time to check valves as you are set up for it doing the cam timing checks already.

Just an offer but if you have the means it is worth it to have it done IMHO.
 
Of the 35 or so 1200's I have checked at least 85% were off. That is GS/GSA/RT included.

So i guess the answer is yes, the cam timing should be verified, even on a low mileage, newish boxer engine.

My question is “HOW did it get be off at all?”.

On a high mileage motor, cam chain stretch can retard cam timing a bit. In severe cases, the chain can even jump a tooth, sometimes with disastrous consequences. But, i cannot understand how cam timing can be off on a new engine from the factory. Does anyone have any insight on this?
 
Lack of care during assembly, mis-aligned robotic assembly, lack of quality control... Anybody's guess.

Question: Once it's checked (and re-set if necessary), can the cam position sensor move again?
 
I have probably done these checks well over 200 times...most, first time looks, some have been checked a dozen times or so.

I think that if you watch this video of the assembly of the WetHead boxer engine, it will let you see the number of points of contact between the rotor of the alternator where TDC is established and the Cam Alignment Jig where play shows up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R817so8zhUY

There is wear-in play in every one of these metal to metal power transfer points, small, but it shows up in the way of cam timing being different than when it was set perfectly at the factory.
Perfectly normal and is similar in every machine in the World.

Example in the bikes we're talking about:

The front end of the crankshaft gears drive the clutch and the shaft in shaft counterbalance shaft. The LH valve train chain is driven from the crankshaft between the cylinders and the alternator with 102 links in the chain, and the RH cams are driven from the lower counterbalance shaft directly below the crank driven chain, and has 106 links. The chain and sprockets on the WetHead are traditional roller link chains on sprockets, but the ShiftHead has different cut gears and uses a multi-leaf link style chain.
Once the chain drive gets power out to the valve cover, there is an intermediate shaft gear that drives both the INT and EXH gear wheels, connected directly to the cams.

It doesn't surprise me a bit that everything wears in along this number of meshing gears and lengths of chain.

I don't recommend doing ANY checking or adjusting of the cam timing or changing the clearance on the valves until you get around 12k on the engine. Stuff just needs time to wear in, and then you can set it without needing to do it a second time at 12k if you checked/adjust it earlier in the engine's life.

There is no substitute for the precision tools to do this Cam Timing procedure. You can not find TDC with a chopstick in the spark plug hole and then use a straight edge to line up the flats on the ends of the cams...and then there's the absolute need to tension the slack side of the cam chain with a Tensioner to a predetermined value. Just releasing and torquing the bolts on the ends of the cams without the Alignment Jig in place causes them to move all over the place.

All of the cams and LH EXH cam timing reluctor are separate components and can be adjusted again once the initial 12k check has been done...no problem with that.

It's a slow day in the shop...
 
Thanks all for the comments.

Boxflyer, I want to do the cam timing checks, but can't find the alignment pin tool, 83302327790. I know you still can find TDC with a straight edge on the cams. If I put the alignment jig on the cams and they are out, is it ok/possible to loosen the cam bolts without locking the flywheel in place with the alignment pin tool? The reason I ask is I can't find the alignment pin tool. I was also told you sell them as well. If you have any in stock how much are they and how do I order one.

Thanks again
 
There is no substitute for the precision tools to do this Cam Timing procedure. You can not find TDC with a chopstick in the spark plug hole and then use a straight edge to line up the flats on the ends of the cams...and then there's the absolute need to tension the slack side of the cam chain with a Tensioner to a predetermined value. Just releasing and torquing the bolts on the ends of the cams without the Alignment Jig in place causes them to move all over the place, and they are out of reference to the crankshaft.

potterke:
What I said above is what it takes to do the Cam Timing Check/Adjustment...it REQUIRES:
1) TDC Locking Pin
2) Cam Chain Tensioner
3) Cam Alignment Jig
4) Torque Wrench Adaptor Arm (not just a crows foot)
5) Optional--some way to turn the engine over other than bumping the rear wheel in 6th gear.

I can't discuss the pricing of my tools in the forum without violating Board policies, so I'll PM you.
P.S. I am not shipping any tools off shore, sorry.
 
Thanks for the details. I have all of the tools including the torque wrench adaptor, just not the alignment tool. Thanks for PM

KP
 
potterke:
What I said above is what it takes to do the Cam Timing Check/Adjustment...it REQUIRES:
1) TDC Locking Pin
2) Cam Chain Tensioner
3) Cam Alignment Jig
4) Torque Wrench Adaptor Arm (not just a crows foot)
5) Optional--some way to turn the engine over other than bumping the rear wheel in 6th gear.

I can't discuss the pricing of my tools in the forum without violating Board policies, so I'll PM you.
P.S. I am not shipping any tools off shore, sorry.

Do you know the tool part number of the torque wrench adapter arm?

I have the rest of the tools on order and was told they were on back-order until the end of August.
 
The torque adapter arm is not a BMW part...it is assumed that a shop will have it along with other general mechanic tools, such as feeler gauges and a micrometer.

The ones I use are from Amazon. Instead of buying a dedicated 16mm, using a 5/8" Imperial size is exactly the same. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HWEAEW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Use on a 1200 needs no modification, but if you are using this on a 1250, the space between the RH intake cam bolt and the chain is reduced significantly.
I grind down the edges of the 5/8" end to be no more than 7.75mm thick to fit in the tight space.
IMG_6820-S.jpg
 
Do you know the tool part number of the torque wrench adapter arm?

I have the rest of the tools on order and was told they were on back-order until the end of August.

The torque adapter arm is not a BMW part...it is assumed that a shop will have it along with other general mechanic tools, such as feeler gauges and a micrometer.

The ones I use are from Amazon. Instead of buying a dedicated 16mm, using a 5/8" Imperial size is exactly the same. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HWEAEW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Use on a 1200 needs no modification, but if you are using this on a 1250, the space between the RH intake cam bolt and the chain is reduced significantly.
I grind down the edges of the 5/8" end to be no more than 7.75mm thick to fit in the tight space.
IMG_6820-S.jpg
Thank you.
 
I have probably done these checks well over 200 times...most, first time looks, some have been checked a dozen times or so.

I think that if you watch this video of the assembly of the WetHead boxer engine, it will let you see the number of points of contact between the rotor of the alternator where TDC is established and the Cam Alignment Jig where play shows up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R817so8zhUY

There is wear-in play in every one of these metal to metal power transfer points, small, but it shows up in the way of cam timing being different than when it was set perfectly at the factory.
Perfectly normal and is similar in every machine in the World.

Example in the bikes we're talking about:

The front end of the crankshaft gears drive the clutch and the shaft in shaft counterbalance shaft. The LH valve train chain is driven from the crankshaft between the cylinders and the alternator with 102 links in the chain, and the RH cams are driven from the lower counterbalance shaft directly below the crank driven chain, and has 106 links. The chain and sprockets on the WetHead are traditional roller link chains on sprockets, but the ShiftHead has different cut gears and uses a multi-leaf link style chain.
Once the chain drive gets power out to the valve cover, there is an intermediate shaft gear that drives both the INT and EXH gear wheels, connected directly to the cams.

It doesn't surprise me a bit that everything wears in along this number of meshing gears and lengths of chain.

So you believe this to be an engine DESIGN issue rather than sloppy assembly at the factory?

I’m just very surprised it has gone on as long as it has. I noticed it was off on my 2011 quite a bit during a valve clearance check. I took it to a dealer hoping BMW would correct it but they declined and i was charged $350. It runs much better now. Considering how critical cam timing is to any engine, it’s odd BMW has not addressed this issue.

Is anyone aware of similar cam timing issues on anyone else's engine designs?
 
Cam timing off

Of the 35 or so 1200's I have checked at least 85% were off. That is GS/GSA/RT included.

Now it is a go, or no go, with the cam alignment jig so some would barley not go on the jig, and to others that were not even close. But in this situation if the jig does not go on it is out.

The other biggie is the cam position sensor on the left side. That has been off to some degree on almost all the bikes I have checked.

camshaft+sensor.jpg


IMHO I would do it or have it done so you know.

I am very paranoid over the cam wear issue so every 6K I check my cam timing, inspect my cam lobes and check valves. Lot of work for a 6K service but I have the time and I love spinning wrenches.

I had my new 17.5 GS open at 300 miles and the cam timing and cam position sensor was off. As a bonus I found every exhaust valve at the low end of the scale. I watched them until my 12K service and replaced all exhaust shims for a looser fit.

I am sure you are fine but when something with a check of it goes on, or does not go on, then IMHO it needs to be checked and corrected if need be.


I'm with you. Every bike I have checked, about a dozen, the cam timing has been off at 10,000 kms. Often some valves need to be re shimed. The cam positioning sensor is ok on some but more often then not needs adjustment
. When all is adjusted the engine is quieter and way smoother. It's worth the check.
 
I'm with you. Every bike I have checked, about a dozen, the cam timing has been off at 10,000 kms. Often some valves need to be re shimed. The cam positioning sensor is ok on some but more often then not needs adjustment
. When all is adjusted the engine is quieter and way smoother. It's worth the check.

Big +1
 
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