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Please vote if you think the MOA should have a more proactive stance with BMW NA

Should the MOA have a proactive roll in presenting its members concerns to BMW NA?

  • I would LIKE the MOA to be an advocate for its members concerning possible manufacture defects.

    Votes: 57 39.6%
  • I would NOT like the MOA to be an advocate for its members concerning possible manufacture defects

    Votes: 87 60.4%

  • Total voters
    144
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Point well made Dan, and who like paying $5 for a coke that is 70% .

Would it be possible to use what "finally" happens here as a model for my interactions with: American Honda, Harley Davidson, Walmart, GM, Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears, Yamaha, my dentist, Kroger's, my urologist, local movie theater, Tire Barn, Macy's, Fred's Bait Shop, IRS, NSA, NASA,...and this list goes on....who have not handled specific situations, as I thought proper, at one time or another in the past? I need a "large" group of people to pressure these folks and others to resolve issues in a more favorable manner, to my benefit. Heck, I'd even pay extra to get this "group" machine up and running.

My first compliant would be against the local movie theater whose popcorn is way too salty....AND THEY KNOW IT! I've asked for numbers on how many people have complained about this, but they will not share it...I know they keep track. At $6.00 a "pop" this isn't right.

Can we vote on this?

Yep that would be a lot of companies to take on. Better do it one at a time.
 
Once you organize and start advocating FOR something, it will alienate "the other party", IOW- BMW corporate.
I am not interested in THIS CLUB to advocate FOR me, AGAINST BMW.
I do not want an US against THEM relationship with the brand.
I would like to keep this club the way it is, and have access to info and events from BMW corporate.

There are several other venues for someone who feels wronged to address that feeling and take action in those venues.

Who would decide what to advocate for and whom to advocate for? I can see any number of problems with people looking to get their out of warranty bike fixed for free because they feel something should not have broken in the first place.
"Yes, my bike is 14 years old, but it only has 3,400 miles on it and I should be compensated."

It would also only be a matter of time before lawyers get involved, and where is the money for the MOA lawyers to come from? Our dues and the MOA fundraising. Both terrible ways to waste our money.
 
Amazing how 1 inept person who couldn't handle his own problem is starting threads over and over and actually getting a couple of guys to back him up.
A waste of time and I'm shocked that the mods don't delete this useless crap.

Agree completely. He wasted too much time, the problem ran it's course and NOW he wants others to fight his battle that he let die in the first place.

I think I'll not pay my mortgage for a year or so, and well after the bank sends me notices and decides to foreclose I'll ask you to advocate and call the bank on my behalf.
 
And people that may have a problem affording an attorney are to do what?

You do not need an attorney to go to small claims court. The judge will also ensure your rights are not trampled by someone else's attorney.

You also do not need an attorney to file or proceed in any state's Lemon Law venue.
 
I vote no. The MOA is a social club bringing together people with an interest / passion for the BMW marque .


Ffffffprrrl....:huh I don't need a nationwide "social club" bringing me together with people of the same interest. I do that locally much more efficient.
I would like to see an "Owners Association" as something true to its name. An association that has the interest of the owners at heart and represents them.

As I said elsewhere: If you guys think that it is good enough for the MOA to be about a magazine with articles of little relevance for the common motorcycler, a platform for people to brag about their annual mileage accumulation and an institution for a few to satisfy their need to officiate, the MOA is not for me. Just beacuse of this, regardless of the issues of the op and the amounts of other threads he started, I voted. You may know how.
 
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Would it be possible to use what "finally" happens here as a model for my interactions with: American Honda, Harley Davidson, Walmart, GM, Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears, Yamaha, my dentist, Kroger's, my urologist, local movie theater, Tire Barn, Macy's, Fred's Bait Shop, IRS, NSA, NASA,...and this list goes on....who have not handled specific situations, as I thought proper, at one time or another in the past? I need a "large" group of people to pressure these folks and others to resolve issues in a more favorable manner, to my benefit. Heck, I'd even pay extra to get this "group" machine up and running.

My first compliant would be against the local movie theater whose popcorn is way too salty....AND THEY KNOW IT! I've asked for numbers on how many people have complained about this, but they will not share it...I know they keep track. At $6.00 a "pop" this isn't right.

Can we vote on this?
 
.............. I can see any number of problems with people looking to get their out of warranty bike fixed for free because they feel something should not have broken in the first place.
"Yes, my bike is 14 years old, but it only has 3,400 miles on it and I should be compensated." ...............

If you truly feel this would be the end result you better vote No.
 
Would it be possible to use what "finally" happens here as a model for my interactions with: American Honda, Harley Davidson, Walmart, GM, Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears, Yamaha, my dentist, Kroger's, my urologist, local movie theater, Tire Barn, Macy's, Fred's Bait Shop, IRS, NSA, NASA,...and this list goes on....who have not handled specific situations, as I thought proper, at one time or another in the past? I need a "large" group of people to pressure these folks and others to resolve issues in a more favorable manner, to my benefit. Heck, I'd even pay extra to get this "group" machine up and running.

My first compliant would be against the local movie theater whose popcorn is way too salty....AND THEY KNOW IT! I've asked for numbers on how many people have complained about this, but they will not share it...I know they keep track. At $6.00 a "pop" this isn't right.

Can we vote on this?

This is a foolish comment. Surely you can do better?
 
Advocacy implies an adversary and there is no reason to make BMW NA an adversary.

I do not admire European firm culture re quality. Germans are great pre planners and engineers but crappy and slow reactors to things that don't go according to plan, unlike Americans or Japanese, for example. But that's no reason to set up an adversary relationship.

However, MOA is too pollyannaish for my taste, especially compared to BMW CCA, the car equivalent. (Whose members wasted few words when they found certain M3 bodies split simply when putting track tires on a car for play, for example. Too few spot welds in the unibody, long ago fixed by BMW)

As I said elsewhere, I suggest an annual issue of ON with a section on reliability and reported defects for existing models. Sort of like Consumer Reports. Data could be from forum or member survey.

Both members and BMW NA would then be free to do with the info as they wish. Draw any or no conclusions, take corrective or no action, etc etc. No legal pressures, just facts...

I'd like to see MOA perceived as the authoritative source of consumer oriented info on BMW bikes but its publications contain little such info with the exception of tech articles by Glaves. Parkhouse, etc. Even decent reviews of new models don't happen- what ON calls a review is mostly a parroted press release and not at all worthy of what ought to be an expert comparison by brand experts. The forum is the place where such details get discussed, sometimes..
 
Advocacy implies an adversary and there is no reason to make BMW NA an adversary.

I do not admire European firm culture re quality. Germans are great pre planners and engineers but crappy and slow reactors to things that don't go according to plan, unlike Americans or Japanese, for example. But that's no reason to set up an adversary relationship..........

100% correct. Have you ever asked NA why they choose to be adversarial?
 
Germans are great pre planners and engineers but crappy and slow reactors to things that don't go according to plan, unlike Americans or Japanese, for example.

Ever deal with GM, Ford, Chrysler or Microsoft customer service?
 
Great suggestion racer7. Kantuckid is calling for an Ombudsman position.

Advocacy implies an adversary and there is no reason to make BMW NA an adversary.

I do not admire European firm culture re quality. Germans are great pre planners and engineers but crappy and slow reactors to things that don't go according to plan, unlike Americans or Japanese, for example. But that's no reason to set up an adversary relationship.

However, MOA is too pollyannaish for my taste, especially compared to BMW CCA, the car equivalent. (Whose members wasted few words when they found certain M3 bodies split simply when putting track tires on a car for play, for example. Too few spot welds in the unibody, long ago fixed by BMW)

As I said elsewhere, I suggest an annual issue of ON with a section on reliability and reported defects for existing models. Sort of like Consumer Reports. Data could be from forum or member survey.

Both members and BMW NA would then be free to do with the info as they wish. Draw any or no conclusions, take corrective or no action, etc etc. No legal pressures, just facts...

I'd like to see MOA perceived as the authoritative source of consumer oriented info on BMW bikes but its publications contain little such info with the exception of tech articles by Glaves. Parkhouse, etc. Even decent reviews of new models don't happen- what ON calls a review is mostly a parroted press release and not at all worthy of what ought to be an expert comparison by brand experts. The forum is the place where such details get discussed, sometimes..

I have been asking for the MOA to set up a forum page that will act as a clearinghouse for all this information. That would include service bulletins, recalls and a place for members to post repeated problems with their bike. The ombudsman could compile this information and be aware of possible defects or repairs that need to be addressed. List the information by models so it will be easy to access.

I also suggest have a page with all the BMW NA corporate contact information so we can quickly bypass the 1-800 customer service reps if we are not getting satisfaction from them.

If I wound have had the direct contact information to BMW NA then I would not have wasted 3 years dealing with customer service reps.

I am going to call the MOA office this morning and see if I can find out if the bikes for the raffle are donated to the MOA by BMW NA. If that is the case then it makes sense why no one wants ruffle any feathers at BMW NA because you "Don't bite the hand that feeds you".

If the bike are donated then I applaud the MOA leadership for getting the bikes for free to help raise money for the foundation. If that is true then you will not see a push from the MOA to create a ombudsman or advocate position for obvious reasons.

I want to make sure that I point this out. From my 25 minute conversation with Greg I found him to be a very nice, honorable and capable leader and I appreciate him taking the time to speak with me. So don't jump on me for asking if the bikes are donated by BMW NA and if that influences the MOA relationship with BMW NA.

Thanks again to Greg and all the moderators for the time consuming work. The MOA and forum would not work with out you.
 
So you won't back me in my battle with the popcorn salters? Gee I thought you'd be first in line....so much for this "association".

P.S. I did do better....I voted 'NO'!

LOL, there's a local restaurant that, to this day, my wife refuses to return to. When our oldest kids were 5 and 8, back in the late 80's, we went to this little local bar restaurant. They had FREE popcorn! Yea! The kids lapped up that salty goodness like it was...free, because it was. What was NOT free, however, were soft drink refills. We were too naive to realize this until we got the tab. The kindly waitress would just keep coming back and filling the kids' glasses..and ringing them up.

So, yeah, I'll join you in your fight, dang it, crap like this is STILL going on after all these years!
:)
 
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