• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

  • Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.

    The Election forum is here: Election Forum

Increase horsepower!

M

motodan

Active member
Ya gotta love the folks down in marketing. By almost accident I've been made aware of a sure fire way to increase horsepower. Other day needed to order a small RAM item, decided to get free shipping by ordering the "kit" for cleaning/lubing chain maintenance. Little did I realize the inherit aspects of using these products - INCREASE HORSEPOWER! It's right there on the packaging....

Now only need to figure out if it goes in the fuel tank or crankcase to achieve that "increase"? LOL!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5587.jpg
    IMG_5587.jpg
    264.8 KB · Views: 429
Technically, I suppose, reducing drive chain friction could increase effective horsepower to the rear wheel. Good luck measuring that.
 
Last edited:
stevienh said:
Technically, I suppose, reducing drive chain friction could increase effective horsepower to the rear wheel. Good luck measuring that.
Click to expand...

That’s the way I see it. I’m working with chains regularly. Some so stiff that it is a tribute to the drive mechanism that the power is transmitted.

Welcome to the forum!

Gary
 
Gee, and I always thought horsepower was created by the engine...didn't realize a well maintained chain would allow those pistons and their feeders/ex-spellers to up the number produced. Marketing.
 
Sometimes Marketing departments get it wrong...sometimes they’re too honest:

16d5730fe585806deef2cbc2412db2b1.jpg



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Motodan said:
Gee, and I always thought horsepower was created by the engine...didn't realize a well maintained chain would allow those pistons and their feeders/ex-spellers to up the number produced. Marketing.
Click to expand...

Everybody can scoff, but reality is that a motorcycle's horsepower is very often presented in two ways: engine or crankshaft horsepower and rear wheel horsepower. When measured by a wheel dyno what is measured is horsepower at the wheel.

A search would disclose a number of presentations criticizing, for example, shaft drive because the shaft and final drive setup adds drag which reduces rear wheel horsepower. And you would also find comparisons between the horsepower "lost" by chain drive vs belt drive, which was once a hot Harley Davidson topic.

I have no way of knowing if the claims made by that chain lubricant are accurate when compared to other chain lubricants but it is an absolute fact that a stiff chain with high friction between the links will reduce horsepower measured at the rear wheel.

As far as how is it measured: Every single wheel dyno run ever done was intended to measure horsepower at the rear wheel. So measure with a dry chain, then measure with a lubricated chain. Just like changing any other variable, you might detect a difference.
 
PGlaves said:
So measure with a dry chain, then measure with a lubricated chain. Just like changing any other variable, you might detect a difference.
Click to expand...

As you allude, one would absolutely detect a difference between a dry chain and a properly lubricated chain.

As a young and stupid rider I never lubed the chain on my 250 Honda, my excuse now being I was not exposed to any experienced riders who would have given me a slap upside the head. Anyway, I had to bring the bike to the shop for some reason or other and the mechanic there gave my red and rusty chain a thorough cleaning and lubrication. Shazam! Instant horsepower increase! It felt like I'd added 50cc to the engine.

Now, my buddies kid me about how fastidious I am with the chain on my sport bikes but it was a lesson I never forgot. Oh, and the chain lasts WAY longer.
 
PGlaves said:
Everybody can scoff, but reality is that a motorcycle's horsepower is very often presented in two ways: engine or crankshaft horsepower and rear wheel horsepower. When measured by a wheel dyno what is measured is horsepower at the wheel.

A search would disclose a number of presentations criticizing, for example, shaft drive because the shaft and final drive setup adds drag which reduces rear wheel horsepower. And you would also find comparisons between the horsepower "lost" by chain drive vs belt drive, which was once a hot Harley Davidson topic.

I have no way of knowing if the claims made by that chain lubricant are accurate when compared to other chain lubricants but it is an absolute fact that a stiff chain with high friction between the links will reduce horsepower measured at the rear wheel.

As far as how is it measured: Every single wheel dyno run ever done was intended to measure horsepower at the rear wheel. So measure with a dry chain, then measure with a lubricated chain. Just like changing any other variable, you might detect a difference.
Click to expand...

I do not believe an engine's raw HP can be increased by oiling the chain or taking 60 pounds of weight from the bike or making the bike more aerodynamic or - whatever. If an engine produces 100 HP, then it produces 100 HP. Somewhere, beyond the engine may show less than 100 HP, but the engine HP itself will not "increase horsepower" because of those downstream changes. That's how I read the add, it did not say "increase rear wheel horsepower". Marketing.
 
Motodan said:
I do not believe an engine's raw HP can be increased by oiling the chain or taking 60 pounds of weight from the bike or making the bike more aerodynamic or - whatever. If an engine produces 100 HP, then it produces 100 HP. Somewhere, beyond the engine may show less than 100 HP, but the engine HP itself will not "increase horsepower" because of those downstream changes. That's how I read the add, it did not say "increase rear wheel horsepower". Marketing.
Click to expand...

Oh, you're one of THOSE guys, eh? :D
 
Motodan said:
I do not believe an engine's raw HP can be increased by oiling the chain or taking 60 pounds of weight from the bike or making the bike more aerodynamic or - whatever. If an engine produces 100 HP, then it produces 100 HP. Somewhere, beyond the engine may show less than 100 HP, but the engine HP itself will not "increase horsepower" because of those downstream changes. That's how I read the add, it did not say "increase rear wheel horsepower". Marketing.
Click to expand...

Nobody said the engine horse power would increase; just that horsepower measured at the rear wheel would increase. Maybe the claim on the can seems a bit farfetched but I don't read into it something it doesn't say.
 
Well, you’d definitely notice the difference if you didn’t lube your shaft drive. But really, chain drive? It’s so yesterday.
 
lupinblue said:
Well, you’d definitely notice the difference if you didn’t lube your shaft drive. But really, chain drive? It’s so yesterday.
Click to expand...

Yes, we all remember when BMW's commercials proclaimed shaft drive was the only real alternative. Did they lie or just forget....Marketing.
 
Motodan said:
Yes, we all remember when BMW's commercials proclaimed shaft drive was the only real alternative. Did they lie or just forget....Marketing.
Click to expand...

I would feel better about the shaft-drive if they could find the other half of the swing-arm :)
OM
 
Motodan said:
Yes, we all remember when BMW's commercials proclaimed shaft drive was the only real alternative. Did they lie or just forget....Marketing.
Click to expand...

I get your point, but in all fairness, it's rarely that simple.

As a marketing and sales executive for the last couple of decades, it's often about objectives that over time don't pan out. For example, and I am totally making this up as I have no visibility to BMW's decisions, but I could envision BMW product managers deciding going forward all motorcycles will be shaft drive for several reasons such as ease of one drive train across all models and the far less maintenance would be widely acceptable for their customers.

As they moved forward to implement and marketing fulfills their objectives by promoting the value of drive shaft over chain, their customers may have pushed back demanding chain drive for certain models.

You have to listen to your customers and complaints may have been so strong that they had to change their plans and offer chain drive. In which case the previous feature positioning - i.e. drive shaft over chain drive - changed and marketing had to address those changes. You obviously can't keep promoting shaft over chain when chain is an offering.

I've seen it a lot over the years.
 
On a Boxer motor with the crankshaft aligned fore-aft a shaft drive is a natural. To use a chain or belt would require a 90 degree ring and pinion at the transmission. It seemed so logical in 1923.

When BMW began with singles, twins, and fours with the transverse (crosswise) crankshaft a chain or belt drive made sense because a shaft would require a 90 degree gearset at the transmission and a second at the rear wheel. It seemed so logical in 1996.
 
Last edited:
You guys have to excuse me - I need to go into the garage and put 5 bottles of STP in my crankcase, and final drive. :burnout

E.
 
easy said:
You guys have to excuse me - I need to go into the garage and put 5 bottles of STP in my crankcase, and final drive. :burnout

E.
Click to expand...

Kinda interesting. I just used a similar product to insert rubber/bushing “dog bone” isolators into the “dog bone” components that stabilize the torque from the rear axel(s) on a friends Peterbuilt.
It’s a case where the heat cold combination would have worked other than the component size.
The product allowed me to push the components in using the 10 ton press without going to the 20 ton press.
If you have some precision parts to fit, it’s worth the try.
OM
 
Forty years ago I had a friend who worked for a company that made the hemisphere shaped roofs for grain silos. These metal hemispheres were pressed out of a single large sheet of steel. The press was large as you might imagine. The company used a lubricant so that the process didn't tear the metal. After having problems with the metal tearing in the press the company finally settled on STP purchased in 55 gallon drums which was applied with a mop. According to my friend, Mike, this solved the problem. Not recommended for wet clutch bikes, or much of anything else on a BMW, but great for silo roofs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

O
Hello and thank you
Replies
11
Views
4K
oconcon
O
N
Oh crap!
2
Replies
22
Views
9K
ragtoplvr
R
C
K1200GT 2008 Jumped Cam Chain Recovery
Replies
12
Views
8K
GT_Jim
G
markgoodrich
Amazing new intercom/music system from motochello
Replies
3
Views
4K
markgoodrich
markgoodrich
Emoto
Sena 20S Motorcycle Bluetooth Communication System
2
Replies
26
Views
20K
hojoinsc
H
Back
Top