• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

  • Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.

    The Election forum is here: Election Forum

Oil, not just another thread

I like to remind consumers that warranty denial such as this is BS-

If you own a car, you know how important it is to keep up with routine maintenance and repairs. But can a dealer refuse to honor the warranty that came with your new car if someone else does the routine maintenance or repairs?

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the nation's consumer protection agency, says no. In fact, it's illegal for a dealer to deny your warranty coverage simply because you had routine maintenance or repairs performed by someone else. Routine maintenance often includes oil changes, tire rotations, belt replacement, fluid checks and flushes, new brake pads, and inspections. Maintenance schedules vary by vehicle make, model and year; the best source of information about routine scheduled maintenance is your owner's manual.


https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

Try not to let unscrupulous dealer/repair locations or suppliers give you a hosing.......unless your into that sort of thing. :deal

OM

OM:

No...this is not about who did the maintenance.

It's about using stuff in your car/bike etc that is not approved by the manufacturer.

In this case, a very expensive Porsche ABS fried at a track day. When the zone rep inspected it, there was blue brake fluid in it. Warranty denied. Porsche does not have any approved blue brake fluid. Super Blue does not have Dot 4 rating...simply because of the dye. I'm not saying it's "bad", but it is the wrong color. Easy for warranty denial.

Viscosity is harder to detect..and there are engine events that can affect viscosity. That makes it even harder to detect. Possible that, if the oil is consistency of cold molassas and the spec is for 0w20 that they might deny warranty repairs. I've never seen it.

There is a lot of discussion about oil weights in the Porsche forums too. They are also accustomed to thick oil and the new engines use thin. I use 5w40 in my 120K mile Cayman S instead of 0w40....but I won't use 20-50. There are people who race them and successfully use thicker oil, but they've also had the engines apart and have opened up the oil channels in the block and bearings. Point is, new engines aren't made the same as the old ones...and manufactures CAN deny warranty payments if you use unapproved fluids or parts and those items can be construed to have contributed to a failure.

My '05 RT's rear swing-arm housing broke in 3 pieces when I hit a road hazard one day. They denied the warranty because I had Wilbers shocks on the bike. I was really mad about it at the time...however... The Wilbers were triple adjustable and they were set too soft for the load I had on the bike at the time. I think they bottomed. The big, fine-thread bolt that fastens the shock to the swing arm was not torqued with a torque wrench and may have been over-tightened, contributing to this failure. My insurance paid for the repair on a road hazard claim. I had to pay deductible but it was covered. I also learned that torque wrenches are important. I had skipped it because the position of the bolt made it tough to use a torque wrench. I have torque wrenches...just not the right extension for this job. Now, I do.

Anyway, fair is fair. Sometimes, the manufacturer has to protect itself. They're not just out to get us.
 
If it made the specifications, color wouldn’t matter. I have to suspect there is more to this story.
The someone else that is doing the maintenance could be the owner.
OM
 
If it made the specifications, color wouldn’t matter. I have to suspect there is more to this story.
The someone else that is doing the maintenance could be the owner.
OM

NOT PORSCHE APPROVED FLUIDS...end of story.

It's not made to the specs. It has dye in it. No porsche approved brake fluids are blue. Get it? Nothing to do with who put it in there. It was a big bucks repair and they
 
Visit your local Yamaha dealer and check out the Yamalube full synthetics with ester. I think these oils will be fine in a BMW and maybe a bit cheaper than BMW branded oils, no surprise there. My FJR tranny was a touch on the clunky shifting side and the Motul with ester did make a difference but I think the Yamalube is every bit as good and at $13/liter it's seems a good choice as well for any integrated engine/tranny motorcycle.
 
Visit your local Yamaha dealer and check out the Yamalube full synthetics with ester. I think these oils will be fine in a BMW and maybe a bit cheaper than BMW branded oils, no surprise there. My FJR tranny was a touch on the clunky shifting side and the Motul with ester did make a difference but I think the Yamalube is every bit as good and at $13/liter it's seems a good choice as well for any integrated engine/tranny motorcycle.

Doesn't your FJR use 20w50 oil? Mine did and I prefered Motul 7100 to Yamalube.
 
What in the world is "Ester" in oil? Motul with ester as opposed to without? what is the differ? What does Ester do for the engine
 
What in the world is "Ester" in oil? Motul with ester as opposed to without? what is the differ? What does Ester do for the engine

Read the Wikipedia piece on “Synthetic Oil”. It explains the various types of synthetic oils (and why “full synthetic” is a marketing term and not an API classification.
 
Good oil (meets specs) is better than bad oil.
New Oil is better than old oil.
Some oil is better than old oil.

That is all.
 
Doesn't your FJR use 20w50 oil? Mine did and I prefered Motul 7100 to Yamalube.

Yes, the FJR can use 20w50 or 10w40. I like the lighter oil because shifting seems a bit smoother and where I live day time high temps are most often 65 to 75 degrees maximum. Today was 70 and the rest of the week will see highs in low seventies before dropping down to the mid 60s. Why did you like Motul over Yamalube? I ask because I've not used the Yamalube only Motul which is great oil, imo. I buy Motul on Amazon but it's really handy to just drive 5 minutes to the Yamaha dealer and cost is about the same.

The BMW gets a steady diet of Shell Rotella T4 15w40 mineral oil since I'm afraid synthetic might cause seal leakage. I also use only BMW oil filters but wish I new of a good quality after market filter. I won't use an automotive filter on any motorcycle. Come to think of it I only use Yamaha filters on the FJR as well.:dunno
 
Yes, the FJR can use 20w50 or 10w40. I like the lighter oil because shifting seems a bit smoother and where I live day time high temps are most often 65 to 75 degrees maximum. Today was 70 and the rest of the week will see highs in low seventies before dropping down to the mid 60s. Why did you like Motul over Yamalube? I ask because I've not used the Yamalube only Motul which is great oil, imo. I buy Motul on Amazon but it's really handy to just drive 5 minutes to the Yamaha dealer and cost is about the same.

The BMW gets a steady diet of Shell Rotella T4 15w40 mineral oil since I'm afraid synthetic might cause seal leakage. I also use only BMW oil filters but wish I new of a good quality after market filter. I won't use an automotive filter on any motorcycle. Come to think of it I only use Yamaha filters on the FJR as well.:dunno
Temps here vary from near freezing to very hot. Typically 2°C to 40°C between spring, summer and fall. Today was a comfortable 25°C while earlier this week it was 36°C.

I didn't know Yamaha recommended 10w40 but I guess it wouldn't do any harm since they initially recommended 20w40. They did recommend 20w50 mineral later.
I ran Motul 20w50 as it is synthetic (100% Esther) vs mineral for Yamalube. I found that Motul gave me smoother shifting. I've tried other brands, Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc. All were fine but I preferred Motul. The synthetic last longer than mineral. The FJR needs new oil every 6000 km and sometimes, on longer trips, I could run past that.

I just did my oil change this past Monday to Motul 7100 5w40 in my RT. It seems to be shifting smoother too but it's still too early to tell.
I was running Shell Rotella T6 5w40 before. As for filters, I use Mahle. They're the OEM supplier for BMW.
 
Temps here vary from near freezing to very hot. Typically 2°C to 40°C between spring, summer and fall. Today was a comfortable 25°C while earlier this week it was 36°C.

I didn't know Yamaha recommended 10w40 but I guess it wouldn't do any harm since they initially recommended 20w40. They did recommend 20w50 mineral later.
I ran Motul 20w50 as it is synthetic (100% Esther) vs mineral for Yamalube. I found that Motul gave me smoother shifting. I've tried other brands, Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc. All were fine but I preferred Motul. The synthetic last longer than mineral. The FJR needs new oil every 6000 km and sometimes, on longer trips, I could run past that.

I just did my oil change this past Monday to Motul 7100 5w40 in my RT. It seems to be shifting smoother too but it's still too early to tell.
I was running Shell Rotella T6 5w40 before. As for filters, I use Mahle. They're the OEM supplier for BMW.

Thanks for that. I just ordered an Mahle OC-91 filter on Amazon for my BMW. Never heard of the brand and free shipping with Prime.

Don't know if Yamaha necessarily recommends 10w40 for the FJR they just give operating air temperature ranges for the oils in the owners manual. On the FJR forums there are those that prefer lighter weights for smoother shifting and riding in cooler temps. I'll probably stick with the Motul since price is about the same as the Yamalube and I really like the 4 liter container the Motul comes in with the nifty pouring spout.
 
Oil Analysis

Has anyone done oil analysis or wear tracking on these various oils and weight specifications? Im particularly interested in the use of the Shell Rotella since it’s readily available at truck stops and auto parts stores anywhere in the country. I’ve become a big fan of bypass oil filtration from experiences with my diesel trucks. The bypass filter is probably not practical for motorcycle use but the oil analysis should give some real information. I have been using Blackstone-labs.com and there are some very good articles there to expand our understanding of what is important in a lubricant.
 
Has anyone done oil analysis or wear tracking on these various oils and weight specifications? Im particularly interested in the use of the Shell Rotella since it’s readily available at truck stops and auto parts stores anywhere in the country. I’ve become a big fan of bypass oil filtration from experiences with my diesel trucks. The bypass filter is probably not practical for motorcycle use but the oil analysis should give some real information. I have been using Blackstone-labs.com and there are some very good articles there to expand our understanding of what is important in a lubricant.

I've been running Advantec Pro 15w-50 in my '11 R1200R, last year after the Rally in SLC I sent a sample to Blackstone for analysis, 38,500 miles on the engine. I changed the oil before I left and racked up 5,400 miles highway driving mostly, temps averaged in the 90's with a few bouts up over 100, my thinking was this was as good a test for engine oil as you could get. Here is the writeup from Blackstone;

We think you did fine taking the sample, and these results are something to be proud of.
Universal averages show typical wear for this type of BMW motor with oil run a similar distance of ~5,400
miles. Compared to those, you've got metals reading low across the board, and that points to internal parts
that are getting along quite well here at 38,485 total miles. The viscosity is in the expected range for a
15W/50, and no gas or dirt contamination was found. The TBN of 6.1 shows plenty of active additive left
(1.0 is low), so try 7,000 miles next time. Nice Beemer!


I plan on sending in a sample every other oil change to keep an eye on things.
 
It is not the oil that wears out, but the additives in the oil that do. In the marine industry it is rare that oil is changed at all in those huge diesels. They just add an additive package and do oil analysis.
The one time I did witness and oil change on the offshore supply vessel I was on, they had 9! 55 gallon oil drums and had a pumper truck on shore taking the old oil out...
The engine was a huge 9 cylinder diesel and the guys told me that this was the first time in 5 years they had done this.
 
I apologize, I am sorry, its my fault. I started this thread. I take full responsibility.

This experience will serve as way to improve my posting skills in the future.
I hope that everyone recognizes that my posts have the interest and wellbeing of all MOA members. My sincere sympathies to all who have suffered and experienced loss of time due to my miscalculations on this thread.
 
My kind of motorhead

I've been running Advantec Pro 15w-50 in my '11 R1200R, last year after the Rally in SLC I sent a sample to Blackstone for analysis, 38,500 miles on the engine. I changed the oil before I left and racked up 5,400 miles highway driving mostly, temps averaged in the 90's with a few bouts up over 100, my thinking was this was as good a test for engine oil as you could get. Here is the writeup from Blackstone;

We think you did fine taking the sample, and these results are something to be proud of.
Universal averages show typical wear for this type of BMW motor with oil run a similar distance of ~5,400
miles. Compared to those, you've got metals reading low across the board, and that points to internal parts
that are getting along quite well here at 38,485 total miles. The viscosity is in the expected range for a
15W/50, and no gas or dirt contamination was found. The TBN of 6.1 shows plenty of active additive left
(1.0 is low), so try 7,000 miles next time. Nice Beemer!


I plan on sending in a sample every other oil change to keep an eye on things.

That's as good a recommendation as it gets. Nothing like real data to help you make a decision.
 
Clacking Noise

Your bike has a chain tensioner that is pumped up by the oil pressure. So the big clacking sound you hear on start-up of or after an oil change is exactly that. The rest of it is normal engine noise that you will simply have to get used to. Unless the engine temps are consistently too high and or you are burning oil (never heard of a wethead yet that used oil) then stick with what the manufacture states. My chev truck using a similar grade oil simply because it improves fuel mileage (less internal friction) . Both my wethead and chev truck show no signs of excessive wear due to oil grade that is too low. I have a GSA and compared to a RT the noise is significantly worse, nothing to stop it except my ears. So I agree with another comment ear plus work well to cut down on the noise pollution.


Enjoy your bike, it will last a very long time if you adhere to the maintenance schedule and use good quality fluids and parts. Keep the shinny side up !
 
Your bike has a chain tensioner that is pumped up by the oil pressure. So the big clacking sound you hear on start-up of or after an oil change is exactly that. The rest of it is normal engine noise that you will simply have to get used to. Unless the engine temps are consistently too high and or you are burning oil (never heard of a wethead yet that used oil) then stick with what the manufacture states. My chev truck using a similar grade oil simply because it improves fuel mileage (less internal friction) . Both my wethead and chev truck show no signs of excessive wear due to oil grade that is too low. I have a GSA and compared to a RT the noise is significantly worse, nothing to stop it except my ears. So I agree with another comment ear plus work well to cut down on the noise pollution.


Enjoy your bike, it will last a very long time if you adhere to the maintenance schedule and use good quality fluids and parts. Keep the shinny side up !

I know my bike has a chain tensioner. It's my 4th RT. I've got over 200K on RTs. Even transplanted a 2000 drive train into a '96 RT once...successfully!

I took a new GS out on a test ride and yes, the noise was louder. No secret to why. The RT has more plastic around the engine covering up some of the death rattle sounds.

The sound I'm talking about isn't at start up, it's at low to mid revs when gently accelerating. It's LC specific. It sounds like engine pre-ignition ping (knock), not like timing chains. I know it's "normal" because both demo bikes did it to some extent although the demo '18 RT seemed to be mostly immune. The bike I bought is a new '17. It's got this pinging noise...30mph in 2nd or 3rd gently accelerating. It's like the knock sensors constantly adjust advance but get confused during this very common riding condition. Not the end of the world, for sure. I'm touring in SE KY with it now. It's doing great. It's just that, otherwise, the smoothness of this engine's response is so perfect... It has more bark than my '05 and you can feel the vibes at higher revs but it's a big boxer motor. I'm used to that.

Aeroflow Tall screen & Sargent seat really work on these all-day rides. I think I need bar-backs. I want to sit back further on the bike but the bars have me leaned into them too much. Getting sore shoulders!

I used the Nav VI's "curvy road" setting all day today and yesterday. There are plenty of them down here. Just beautiful, but you have to be philosophical about your destination. I had left it on to go from motel to dinner tonight. Should be 2 miles. It was over 15! Beautiful roads but I was tired and hungry! Lesson learned.

I'm aiming for Maggie Valley, NC via "curvy roads" for tomorrow. It will take all day I may not make it, in fact. Who cares? I came down here to go riding. I found a back road out of Lexington that had a 3 car ferry...no charge. Great fun. Some of these roads look like golf cart paths. Seriously great roads from this device. I took a tour in the Alps with Edelweiss. That is the only comparable trip to this one. Edelweiss know all the tiny little Alpine roads.

Also helps that there was almost no traffic for 2 full days. It's like the rapture came and took all the traffic.

(sorry, for the bible belt reference...there's a lot o' thumpin' goin' on around here.)

:toast:
 
Back
Top