• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

No Synthetic Oil Until 10k??

Gonna change the oil & filter on my new RT soon, as well as a valve adjustment. I have heard some say that it is best to wait until after 10K before using synthetic oil. I could not find anything in my manual. My only guess is that non-synthetic oil helps to promote a better break-in. Can anyone confirm or deny this?? I have used Mobil 1 V Twin Synthetic on my HD and it peformed well, but the Boxer is a new bread for me and I want what is best for it. Any preferences?

Hmmm, the MD State Trooper BMWs get switched to synth at the 600 mile service. That's when I switched mine.

P
 
I just love reading these treads on which oil is best. I usually just read with amusement and move on to the next tread, but today I would like to pose a question. Before I do I would like to qualify myself. For the past twenty years I have been employed and certified as an automotive service technician, I have my Alberta journeyman certificate, my Canadian red seal interprovincal journeyman certificate, I am certified by ASE in A1 through A8 and L1, I am also a certified Ford master technician, and a Land Rover gold certified master technician. I have taken lubricant chemical analysis courses at collage level; I have performed the oil tests on new and used oils that Don has done by Black Stone labs. In my time I have torn down and repaired/replaced many a engine that has failed in one way or another. I have seen many interesting things cause an engine to fail, some of the more notable ones are; lack of oil-due to leaks, usage, and owner neglect. Contaminated oil ÔÇô usually from a failed gasket allowing coolant into the oil. Hard part failures-stress failure due to abuse, manufacturer defects, poor workmanship, etc. Air/ fuel system failures resulting in Eng. Damage- leaking inj causing a scuffed piston, poor air filtration causing dusted cylinders, and my favourite, poor quality fuel causing pinging and resulting in ultrasonic erosion of the nicasil liners. Now there are lots more that I have seen, these are just some examples. The point is I have never been able to directly conclude that oil has been the cause of a failure.

So the question that I posse is this; Has anyone had modern engine failure that was the direct result of the oil used?

Earl
 
So the question that I posse is this; Has anyone had modern engine failure that was the direct result of the oil used?

Earl
Depends on what'cha mean by modern. I had a '61 Volvo PV544 engine crack a ring, and I blamed it on the quart of Esso oil I'd added a few days before.. (I'd always used Quaker State.)

A bit more recently than that - BMW - on the 2001-2006 E46/M3 series cars originally specified 10W-30 synthetic. They had a lot of engines exploding (rods through the side of the engine sort of exploding, pistons going into the head..), and they then switched the oil requirement to a very rare 10W-60 synthetic. (Castrol TWS oil - made in Germany, sold by BMW dealers and a few aftermarket parts places.. I've thought of using it in the R12R actually - it's cheaper than the 15W-50 bike synthetic.)

It isn't clear if the failures were due to the oil being used or the 8k red-line in a long straight 6.. but it was there. The engines stopped blowing up after the oil spec change and after BMW replaced all the connecting rod bearings and oil pumps in about 3 years worth of cars.

Other than that - nope, but the M3 one was pretty significant (the engine costs more than my R12R..)

Been meaning to do an oil analysis on the oil from my M3.. but it's really just transportation.. the R12R is the passion.
 
My "owners manual" states:

"BMW recommends Castrol."


So much for their brand.

Those manuals are prepared in Germany and BMWAG has a deal with Castrol. I think the manual also says SF to SH. If you can get some SH Castrol, then that is within their guidelines.
As far as "their brand" goes, in the USA BMWNA has a deal with Spectro who makes their branded oil and it is rated SH.
Generally, I think any warranty/oil issue would only come up if a dealer, for whatever reason, initiated the issue. Some dealers seem to come up with a lot of odd/erroneous/and blaming the customer reasons for things that go wrong with our BMWs. I think you should know your dealer as well as your oil while making a choice.
 
My BMW car was delivered with Synth in the big V8 - I have about 2500 miles on the car and it is not due for an oil change until it hits 15K - that car does not evcen have an oil level indicator - the protocol for checking the oil level is to drain the crankase, refill, and measure the amount required to bring it up to full.

Please do not take offense, but my '06 325i does not have a dipstick, but does have an oil level sensor, that is checked by toggling a switch on the turnsignal stalk, then pressing the button on the end of the stalk. I personally would prefer a dipstick. If you have checked your owner's manual, please disregard.
 
Don, that seems to me to be a human error, not a failure of the oil it self, the engineers tried to skimp on the oil needed for a high performance engine, and failed. And i know what you mean on cost, the last BMW engine I replaced was a M62 4.4L in a Range Rover(04)- $20 000.00 all told. the cust was none to happy as it was not covered under warranty- Nicasil liners were pitted by pinging from running shitty gas on the hi-way, lost compession in #5&8 cylinders, punped all the oil out of the exhaust. It sucks to learn things the hard way but it did say that if the eng. light starts to flash, pull over and stop the eng. to avoid causing damage. Also dont know how poor oil could break a ring, seems like a stretch to me, usually rings break due to over heating or carbon build up from burning oil seizing them and causing the failure. Its like the old standby ' I just had my car in for an oil change and now my ???? does not work, it must be your fault"(and I want it fixed for free)

Earl
 
My F800 has had synthetic oil since 1K. Seems to be working well, so far.

I just like synthetic oil.
 
Don and others, feel free to pay whatever you like for oil, but I say it is a waste of money to pander to BMW for overpriced oil when there is not one example I know of where BMW denied a warranty claim for using the wrong oil. Not one!:deal

Have a nice day, and don't hurt yourselves beating yuor chest to hard!:D

Jim :brow
 
Don, that seems to me to be a human error, not a failure of the oil it self, the engineers tried to skimp on the oil needed for a high performance engine, and failed.
OK - then I'm unclear on what you'd consider an oil caused failure.. This seemed to be one to me - the oil specifications weren't sufficient for the engine.. sort of like using SM rated oil in a BMW bike engine that requires SG/SH..

Puzzled... (and beating my chest for a bit so Jim is happy.. :bolt )
 
Don and others, feel free to pay whatever you like for oil, but I say it is a waste of money to pander to BMW for overpriced oil when there is not one example I know of where BMW denied a warranty claim for using the wrong oil. Not one!:deal

Have a nice day, and don't hurt yourselves beating yuor chest to hard!:D

Jim :brow
Jim - you can - as I do - do whatever you want. You certainly don't need my permission, nor do I need yours. I told what I did and why. You are certainly free to disagree with me, but it seems a bit strange that we can't disagree with you.

As you said - have a nice day. :p

(Wandering away with a bruised chest apparently..) :bolt
 
duty_calls.png

(Just love this cartoon..)
 
OK - then I'm unclear on what you'd consider an oil caused failure.. This seemed to be one to me - the oil specifications weren't sufficient for the engine.. sort of like using SM rated oil in a BMW bike engine that requires SG/SH..

Puzzled... (and beating my chest for a bit so Jim is happy.. :bolt )

My dealer is also a BMW car dealer and I remember that but was thinking the answer was something different than just the oil...seems like it was the ethanol in the gas or something that the linings were not resistant to. I could be all wet on that, but I remember something about we had here and they did not have in Europe.
 
My dealer is also a BMW car dealer and I remember that but was thinking the answer was something different than just the oil...seems like it was the ethanol in the gas or something that the linings were not resistant to. I could be all wet on that, but I remember something about we had here and they did not have in Europe.
Gas wasn't the problem. BMW initially blamed it on the oil (well - initially they blamed it on the customers.. that's not a surprise..) used. They then claimed that there were some batches of bad bearings installed, and a bad oil pump. They then did a 2nd go around with the oil pumps (some cars got them twice..) The final outcome was - new bearings, new oil pump, extended engine warranty for anything touched by oil to 100k/6 years, and the new oil specification. There are a lot less reports of them blowing up since they took these actions.. :buds
 
I use only BMW oil and filters. Always have, always will. Not just because I'm afraid the warranty will be effected, but because I want to maximize performance and minimize wear. My bike is out of warranty at 36,000 miles and I hope to ride it well past three times that. I'd feel stupid if I saved a few dollars on a Fram filter or Wal-Mart oil just to have the engine "wear out" at sixty thousand miles.
 
Used a BMW filter $16 with crush washer and Castrol 4T $12 for my 4000 mile oil change.
 
Don and others, feel free to pay whatever you like for oil, but I say it is a waste of money to pander to BMW for overpriced oil when there is not one example I know of where BMW denied a warranty claim for using the wrong oil.

I don't think anyone here has opined that you MUST use "overpriced" BMW brand engine oil during the warranty period, and I have repeatedly said I am talking about API classification and not brand. Apparently some people read what they want to read. :banghead

Even if the risk of BMW denying a warranty claim is small, why take the risk, especially if there is no financial benefit for doing it? Just put the specified SG/SH oil (WHATEVER BRAND YOU WANT) in the bike until the warranty has expired. After that, it's probably going to be your dime anyway if something breaks, so THEN you can decide whether to keep using an SG/SH or go to an SM that has a higher ZDDP content (e.g., Mobil 1 15w-50 or 20w-50). ;)
 
Last edited:
I don't think anyone here has opined that you MUST use "overpriced" BMW brand engine oil during the warranty period, and I have repeatedly said I am talking about API classification and not brand. Apparently some people read what they want to read. :banghead

Isn't that the truth!:stick

Even if the risk of BMW denying a warranty claim is small, why take the risk, especially if there is no financial benefit for doing it? Just put the specified SG/SH oil (WHATEVER BRAND YOU WANT) in the bike until the warranty has expired. After that, it's probably going to be your dime anyway if something breaks, so THEN you can decide whether to keep using an SG/SH or go to an SM that has a higher ZDDP content (e.g., Mobil 1 15w-50 or 20w-50). ;)


But that is the point. BMW oil IS more expensive! $3+ a quart. It does add up.

Oh, and I know people who even work for BMW who not only don't use BMW oil, and don't use BMW filters.

To each his own, but my opinion is no less valid than Don's or your's, and your constant need to prove me wrong, with no evidence, is pointless.

Jim :brow
 
no synthetic

It's been a good thread, though.

I've got to get up to speed on these new API classifications. :scratch

Rinty
 
Last edited:
Back
Top