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Is Harley-Davidson Dying?

When I close my vehicles door at a dealership, they come a runnin’. “What can I do to earn your business today” is the cry. My response varies but goes something like- “I didn’t know they had car hop service..... do you have hand-battered onion rings”?
:hungover
OM

Although tempting, some folks might consider that rude. The guy is just trying to do a job, right? I've found that a simple "I'm just looking around right now. Give me your card and I'll let you know if I have any questions" response has generally always got me off on the right foot with a sales person. YMMV :dunno
 
Good call, Omega Man. :thumb

"I want to buy a motorcycle that I can make loud and obnoxious, that doesn't accelerate, handle or stop like a motorcycle should, that makes me think I'm something I'm not, and that pisses off the general public when I ride by. In black. Got any of those?"

:D

The Buell bikes were rather quiet as I recall. That was the initial concern re marketing and sales.
Speaking of sales, your description has kept HD at about 50% of the market so it must be what someone going into a Harley dealer to shop is looking for.
OM
 
Good call, Omega Man. :thumb

"I want to buy a motorcycle that I can make loud and obnoxious, that doesn't accelerate, handle or stop like a motorcycle should, that makes me think I'm something I'm not, and that pisses off the general public when I ride by. In black. Got any of those?"

:D

While I have to admit I have made many jokes about H-D bikes and riders based on those perceptions, my true experience is that the vast majority of H-D riders I know or have met are simply into the look, engineering, riding position, and - yes - sound of a Harley in the same way we here are into how BMW's are engineered. Different strokes, as it were.
 
BMW got torqued over its devoted using the Roundel logo. Rumor had it the management team wet their pants over that one.......quietly. :brad
OM
 
BMW got torqued over its devoted using the Roundel logo. Rumor had it the management team wet their pants over that one.......quietly. :brad
OM

The CI (Corporate Identity) issue has been greatly misunderstood. BMW was doing nothing that every other major international brand hasn't already done - protect their intellectual property. You can bet that there is a very substantial department at H-D devoted to stopping unlicensed usage of the bar and shield IP. In 1994, Harley even tried to trademark their V-twin sound. The range of ways Harley will license the use of their trademarks is very different than BMW would approve, but both are very protective.
 
The CI (Corporate Identity) issue has been greatly misunderstood. BMW was doing nothing that every other major international brand hasn't already done - protect their intellectual property. You can bet that there is a very substantial department at H-D devoted to stopping unlicensed usage of the bar and shield IP. In 1994, Harley even tried to trademark their V-twin sound. The range of ways Harley will license the use of their trademarks is very different than BMW would approve, but both are very protective.

Yeah, all those renegade yamzukecato clubs using the BMW logo.
I completely understand protecting a company image, but from its devoted :scratch
OM
 
good call, omega man. :thumb

"i want to buy a motorcycle that i can make loud and obnoxious, that doesn't accelerate, handle or stop like a motorcycle should, that makes me think i'm something i'm not, and that pisses off the general public when i ride by. In black. Got any of those?"

:d

And call it the R18.
 
Yeah, all those renegade yamzukecato clubs using the BMW logo.
I completely understand protecting a company image, but from its devoted :scratch
OM

In intellectual property law you *must* be able to prove that you are aggressively protecting your property at all times, in all cases, and only allowing approved (licensed) usage. BMW could not allow bike clubs to do what they want with the BMW roundel and yet be able to win a court case against many other types of inappropriate, unlicensed, usages. Further, but equally important, BMW - like all other companies - spends cubic dollars (Marks) to create a very specific corporate brand. Branding includes many elements - it's not just a logo - but a logo is certainly part of that. So, they have guides about how their brand image is to managed. You likely already understand this unconsciously. For example, you would likely not be surprised to see the Harley Bar and Shield logo on the coach of some panties, but would be flabbergasted to see the BMW logo there. Harley's "bad boy (and girl)" image is just as carefully managed to make logoed panties logical as BMW has managed their brand away from such a use. We can like these realities, or not, but they are how things work (and have been working for many years), and we have to accept them. In practice, BMW AG has not been chasing down local BMW clubs for "not permitted" IP usage.

The true story of the Corporate Identity negotiations with BMW AG includes a couple of very major wins for the BMW MOA, and for all other BMW clubs (cars & bikes) world wide. We ended up far better off then we started with the first version of the proposed agreement, and although we must follow their Design Guidelines (usage rules) we received some rights we never had before. If it wouldn't be waking a sleeping dog, I might be tempted to write that story sometime.
 
:dunno
I don’t have distain for any group that rides any particular brand.
I do wonder if the Harley riders spend much time thinking about BMW riders though :burnout
OM

I seriously doubt it. Big dogs seldom give little dogs any thought. Let me change that to "Only when they get passed by one."
 
I do wonder if the Harley riders spend much time thinking about BMW riders though :burnout
OM

You make a very good point. It seems that whenever the subject of Harley comes up, we see multiple pages of posts and opinions.

And while you may not look upon others with disdain (admirable), the Harley riders in my neck of the woods certainly look at other bikes, and their riders, with disdain. I've found that the further away from urban centres I get, the less disdain I witness.
 
You make a very good point. It seems that whenever the subject of Harley comes up, we see multiple pages of posts and opinions.

And while you may not look upon others with disdain (admirable), the Harley riders in my neck of the woods certainly look at other bikes, and their riders, with disdain. I've found that the further away from urban centres I get, the less disdain I witness.

Two stories:

1. A very good friend of mine was riding his R100RS in Tennessee one day and stopped for lunch. As he was just coming out of the door leaving he noticed two Harley riders who had just pulled up were circling his bike, pointing, and making comments. So, waits so see how this will play out. The first one says, "That is one funny looking engine with the cylinders sicking out." To which the other says, "Yes it is. But don't ever try to catch one."

2. When at a party or some event when I'm introduced to another rider, I'll ask him/her what they ride. If the answer is a Harley XSFVC etc., I'll respond with "Congratulations! {Then pause as they smile and puff up} You only have one more upgrade coming!" At which point they tighten up a bit and ask, "Well, what kind of bike do *you* ride?!". When I say "BMW" they will snort, laugh, and say, "You BMW guys are all the same!" Then we have a beer together.
 
I ride with a bunch of Harley guys, I own a 2016 HD Limited as wall as the RT. Once in a while I will ride my RT with the group. I usually get some comments, poking fun at the funny looking bike and what not, but quite often the leader of the ride will tell where we are going, which route and what not, and last thing he does is look and me and says we will see you at the restaurant, probably 1/2 hour after you get there. Then everyone gets on and goes. I like to ride a bit faster and harder than most, having a sport touring rig has not helped my reputation at all.
 
I do wonder if the Harley riders spend much time thinking about BMW riders though :burnout
OM

They probably don't. But I do distinctly recall the days many years ago when the Yamaha 750 triple I rode was grouped in with all of the rest of the "Jap crap."

Most recently it seems that the disdain is aimed at metric cruisers ridden by "Harley Wannabes." I wonder how this will apply to the R1800, or K1600 Grand America. I haven't been out and about enough lately to know at all.
 
They probably don't. But I do distinctly recall the days many years ago when the Yamaha 750 triple I rode was grouped in with all of the rest of the "Jap crap."

Most recently it seems that the disdain is aimed at metric cruisers ridden by "Harley Wannabes." I wonder how this will apply to the R1800, or K1600 Grand America. I haven't been out and about enough lately to know at all.

In all my discussions with Harley riders they have been very respectful of the BMW boxers. Latest guy I talked to said he always heard great things about BMW but they were "too ugly" - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think my '16 is a friggin' work of art!

Ski
 
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