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Results - Dec '11 Member Survey-Rally & Events

IHow hard would it be to have half a page in the BMWON asking 1) what temperature range would you like the Rally to have, and is that important, very important, etc. And 2) what month/dates would you like to see the Rally held, and is that important, very important, etc.? Once the temps and dates were known, that would narrow down the geographic location(s). What event brought about the NO MOVE from the July time-frame attitude, or it just a feeling or something else? Just curious.
Ride Safe,
Robert

Asking what temperature we would like in a survey would not be useful. Based on the average temperature at rally locations, Bloomsburg would have been a winner but we complain because it was about 20 degrees above average. I've been to rallys when it was hot, cold and just right. I went to a couple of late Sept/early Oct rallys with the RA and nearly froze. You just never know.

Some don't think having a rally during school summer vacation is important. It is important to the age group we need to attract to the MOA. They are parents, teachers or otherwise employed by school systems or in business related to school (suppliers of goods, tech support and others that depend on school children for their income).
 
Kumbaya


As a new guy that has not attended a Rally (yet) this was a hard survey to fill out. At least 2/3 of the questions would take knowledge and the experience of attending a rally in order to make an educated choice. I was not able to skip questions that I did not feel qualified to answer. So, it was not completed. Certainly, when the rally is held, is a good question for the general population that wants to attend? June? July? For me, does not matter. I can see that for some folks it makes all the difference in the world as to when they have the time off. Collecting computerized data makes a lot sense, because it takes less time for the person or persons trying to compile the data.

I applaud the volunteers that put the Rally on and are looking for new ways of improving the event. From my perspective, it looks like a fantastic event that I hope to attend some day? Maybe at Salem Oregon? Like any event I have ever attended, if your a new guy/gal at your first event, all of it is new and exciting. If you have attended many events, it may seem stale and need refreshing. I can't gripe because I don't know?

Since I am from California (the home of fruits and nuts) may I suggest we all sit around in a circle, hold hands and sing Coom-bi-yaa. That is Happy-Hippy-Healer stuff! Coom-bi-yaa, I don't think I spelled that right?:scratch Peace-Love...
 
I have heard this teacher, etc. time and time again! Is there any fact, numbers, any real data to back this up? I'd like to see any hard data and the meta-data if there is something to this. This school effect cannot influence a 30,000 person membership unless we're all in a teachers union.
Ride Safe,
Robert

Some don't think having a rally during school summer vacation is important. It is important to the age group we need to attract to the MOA. They are parents, teachers or otherwise employed by school systems or in business related to school (suppliers of goods, tech support and others that depend on school children for their income).
 
As a new guy that has not attended a Rally (yet) this was a hard survey to fill out. At least 2/3 of the questions would take knowledge and the experience of attending a rally in order to make an educated choice. I was not able to skip questions that I did not feel qualified to answer. So, it was not completed. Certainly, when the rally is held, is a good question for the general population that wants to attend? June? July? For me, does not matter. I can see that for some folks it makes all the difference in the world as to when they have the time off. Collecting computerized data makes a lot sense, because it takes less time for the person or persons trying to compile the data.

I applaud the volunteers that put the Rally on and are looking for new ways of improving the event. From my perspective, it looks like a fantastic event that I hope to attend some day? Maybe at Salem Oregon? Like any event I have ever attended, if your a new guy/gal at your first event, all of it is new and exciting. If you have attended many events, it may seem stale and need refreshing. I can't gripe because I don't know?

Since I am from California (the home of fruits and nuts) may I suggest we all sit around in a circle, hold hands and sing Coom-bi-yaa. That is Happy-Hippy-Healer stuff! Coom-bi-yaa, I don't think I spelled that right?:scratch Peace-Love...


:hug
 
If you can send out the milage start forms in the springtime in the moa on mag. why can't you also send out a 3 by 5 card with a survey to EVERYONE??

the BOD does not want to do this because they will not get the results they want, which is to hold the rally in July, like it has been since the beginning of time.

it seems they want my membership dues but they don't want my opinion on when the rally should be held.

it really is not all that hard to put an end this ongoing discussion every year. conduct an honest survey of all the members. once that is done then the next time the question of when the rally is held arises the BOD can show hard data, collected from all the members, as to when the majority want the rally held. until that happens, this will be an ongoing issue, discussed at great length every year.
 
the BOD does not want to do this because they will not get the results they want, which is to hold the rally in July, like it has been since the beginning of time.

It's always easier to believe conspircy that to attempt to understand complexity.
 
it really is not all that hard to put an end this ongoing discussion every year. Conduct an honest survey of all the members. Once that is done, then the next time the question of when the rally is held arises the BOD can show hard data, (collected from all the members) as to when the majority want the rally held. until that happens, this will be an ongoing issue, discussed at great length every year.

Here! Here!
 
Moderator interruption-
Tossing around ideas that may help in a future Rally is fine.....when members get so worked up that we have to step in and referee- it's something we at the mod team would rather not do.
Please play nice.
Thanks, the mod team.
 
I'll throw in my 2 cents here. I am not privy to any of the decision making process (outside of what is available in the forums, magazine, etc.) so this is just my personal opinion. In setting up a national rally for a large diversely located club like ours the final choice will have to be a blending of many different needs with the ultimate goal of offering the best appeal to the widest group of individuals at any one time. This balancing act will also mean that there are members that will not be happy with the decision making process for one reason or another. If you go through these forums I don't think there is one facet of the decision making process that has not been criticized at one time or another.

Based on previous survey results, my own guesses and bias the average temperature is significantly less important than the sum of non temperature factors, such as vendor participation, riding opportunities, non rally opportunities (near an interesting city, natural resource, etc.) and what is probably the single most important factor, how close is the rally to the the largest population of riders. All things being equal, the closer you are to the largest number of people the more likely you will get a good turn out. These being said it would lead me to believe that we will get more return on our rally investment (return equals members attending) by tweaking the more controllable non-temperature factors to appeal to as many members as possible.

As for the summer months that time of year likely allows the largest number of members to attend a rally if they choose. For me that should be the first requirement. On a personal note my wife, a college counselor, has a new boss who has
decided that the counselors should not take vacation during the school year. Are college counselors a large demographic for the MOA? I seriously doubt it but I certainly want the opportunity to attend the rallies, which we have always enjoyed, and yes we were at Bloomsburg and it was hot, but it was better than if we were at Bloomsburg the following year when it wasn't that hot but it was under water.

The idea to offer the entire calendar year as an option doesn't make much sense. A very large percentage of us ride in parts of the country where how to prep your bike for winter storage gets more attention than planning a route to a rally. I don't have the stats to back that up but I am also willing to not spend money on a survey to definitively answer the question is January a good time to have a national rally.

Final thoughts, the return rate of the previous MOA survey was much better than industry average, about 8-10%. Statisticians say that a properly selected small group correlates well with the opinions of the larger demographic. That being said posting similar questions in our forum could be done and I would hazard a guess and say the return rate would not be much better.

The last thing I want to comment on is the tone of some of the posters. The implication (at least that is how it comes across to me) that the BOD is this rigid, member ignoring, fearful of the truth group of individuals is ludicrous. I have not been able to figure out in the least why they would want to be in a volunteer position (I have been in various volunteer positions most of my adult life) and receive this level of aggravation. To these posters what benefit do you believe they receive from being so "inflexible"? As others have said, run, volunteer, change from within. There are no super PACs, secret money or anything else to prevent your voice from being heard/elected in the MOA leadership.

I have found the present process to be as transparent as I need, sometimes I like the choices and I go sometimes I don't and I stay home. That is probably all we should really expect. Off soapbox, sorry for the length of the post.
 
Why survey only 2000 why not EVERYONE?] I just don't understand why this is not done ,period!What do you have against surveying EVERY ONE,might you not like the outcome or what may have to be done(move the rally that you really don't want to do) to remity the situation from a total survey of EVERYONE??:scratch I never saw a survey?

I agree with asking th entire membership via BMWON,

TexPaul,
I agree, some type of online survey to the whole membership should be considered.

it really is not all that hard to put an end this ongoing discussion every year. conduct an honest survey of all the members.

If the definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior, then by answering this question you can assume that I am totally nucking futz.

If you survey the entire membership then your results will be skewed toward the opinion of people who are predisposed to answer surveys.

This is referred to as self selection bias.

Self selection error greatly increases the risk of making decisions based on an inaccurate measure of the entire population, e.g. people who wish to share their opinion the most.

Ian
 
I don't think sampling 2,000 or 20,000 would change the results.

2,000 questionnaires sent out randomly should give a representative cross section.

After all, do political pollsters poll 40 million people at a time to get a feel for voter's preferences? No, they poll 1,000.
 
It might be wise if the complainers and whiners would consider the options.

This is beginning to remind me of my mother's side of the family. A cousin and I handled the annual family reunion for many years. Other cousins and their spouses kept complaining about the time we had it and the location we chose. My cousin and I got frustrated and fed up. We turned the reunion over to them. We have not had a reunion since.

Many people grumble and complain but when it is time to actually do something, they are nowhere to be found.
 
Many people grumble and complain but when it is time to actually do something, they are nowhere to be found.

I'm confused, in your opinion what exactly does it take to 'do something/change' the dates of events that haven't been scheduled? In my opinion, all it takes is a change of mindset, nothing fiscal or physical 'to do'. Or am I missing something?
Ride Safe,
Robert
 
It might be wise if the complainers and whiners would consider the options. .

You're correct, that is exactly what I think some members would like to see, sometype of options! And I don't mean mid-June thru July as the only option. What about sometime in the other 10 1/2 months as an option?
Ride Safe,
Robert
 
Cross posted from the "Too Hot" thread.

Robert,

The forum is a great place for members to discuss things with each other. You can tell from my post count that I discuss a lot of things. With the post count over 200 on this thread, and with 88 different posters, there certainly has been a lot of discussion on this topic. However, BOD members don't monitor the forum. It is not an effective way to provide them with your concerns and ideas.

Have you sent an e-mail to the BOD expressing your concerns? If not, why not? It is easy to do: Board@moa.org . If so, have you received a response? I would suggest that you will get a much quicker response than posting here on this issue. During the several years of membership ,I've been told by several BOD members that very few folks bother to communicate with them directly.

The future of MOA is dependent on may different things, the Rally being one of them. I'm not sure that we can continue to exist for the next 20 years without attracting younger people who have multiple activities competing for their time and resources. What suits me, a retired old phart who can go to a Rally any time during they year, may not be the best criteria to make decisions on how we continue to exist and grow as an organization.

Challenges abound. Hopefully we will find ways to meet those challenges as we look to the future.

As an aside, while we were burning up in S. Illinois the last of July, my daughter-in-law and granddaughter were enjoying the cool temps of the Florida panhandle. Who would have picked Destin, FL for a summer motorcycle rally?
 
Bud,
I have talked with a board member at the IBA Meeting in Denver and all she could say was refer to the results of the poll, and that was gospel! She caught me off guard because I hadn't heard of a poll nor did I remember taking it You know us old farts forget everything. She acted like the poll was the bees knees and that was that and the 'membership' had spoken. So, I figured I was certainly in the minority and that was that. However, I didn't realize that the poll was only given to 2,000 members and that only 7xx had replied and THAT the only time frame for the response was mid-June thru July, I was shocked to say the least. I suffered in both Bloomsburg and Sedalia and was thinking that something is wrong with the process. Now I understand and IMHO the process was/is completely biased and I can't figure out why. Teacher, school students, young people, etc. are handed up as reasons but no one offers any evidence or any 'scientific' data or the meta-data behind these belief's. Do you have anything but a feeling that younger members WANT obliviously hot summer Rally dates? Maybe there is proof and maybe there isn't. All I know is a friend vender wasn't happy, the Rally wasn't a good deal for his company, and he attributed it to the lack of attendance. I know the Rally wasn't a good deal for me because I suffered in the heat and sun. Not one square foot of shade in club camping area!

Also if the BOD doesn't monitor what is being said on their on site then I'd say there something wrong with that too!

Yes, I have contacted the BOD, but not about Rally dates. I was concerned that because of cost the filling of the BOD and the Voting process is/maybe going to change. I asked what cost $13K to elect someone and Ray said they reduced the cost to about $6K and that was mainly for postage. It just goes to show you why we need to make tons of money at the Rally to pay for election process that can afford to mail ballots to 100% of the members, and if need be a second mailing because to get all the positions filled. I don't care for 'appointed' BOD members, just my personal problem.

I also have the believe that common sense will prevail and the dates will be, shall I say more 'suitable'. I still can't get over the 'one' option in the poll mid-June thru July.

I'm not sure about Rally mentality anyway, why couldn't someone couldn't turn off the flames at Bloomsburg? tell them to go to the other end of the area and flame away!

I also know that the members come first and the staff second, so I'm looking for leadership in the hot sun shall I say, ie a BOD camping area without one square foot of shade, or rain protection, and the furthest away from any restroom facilities. Ray's was in the military he knows these things, troops first.

Thanks for the advice and I very much appreciate your point(s) of view. I like you worry about the future if we continue to drive people away. I have said in my other threads that the BOD needs to offer the membership a 'good deal' because you can't drive people away from a good deal. It is their singular responsibility.

Cross posted from the "Too Hot" thread.

Robert,

The forum is a great place for members to discuss things with each other. You can tell from my post count that I discuss a lot of things. With the post count over 200 on this thread, and with 88 different posters, there certainly has been a lot of discussion on this topic. However, BOD members don't monitor the forum. It is not an effective way to provide them with your concerns and ideas.

Have you sent an e-mail to the BOD expressing your concerns? If not, why not? It is easy to do: Board@moa.org . If so, have you received a response? I would suggest that you will get a much quicker response than posting here on this issue. During the several years of membership ,I've been told by several BOD members that very few folks bother to communicate with them directly.

The future of MOA is dependent on may different things, the Rally being one of them. I'm not sure that we can continue to exist for the next 20 years without attracting younger people who have multiple activities competing for their time and resources. What suits me, a retired old phart who can go to a Rally any time during they year, may not be the best criteria to make decisions on how we continue to exist and grow as an organization.

Challenges abound. Hopefully we will find ways to meet those challenges as we look to the future.

As an aside, while we were burning up in S. Illinois the last of July, my daughter-in-law and granddaughter were enjoying the cool temps of the Florida panhandle. Who would have picked Destin, FL for a summer motorcycle rally?
 
Bud,
I have talked with a board member at the IBA Meeting in Denver and all she could say was refer to the results of the poll, and that was gospel! She caught me off guard because I hadn't heard of a poll nor did I remember taking it You know us old farts forget everything. She acted like the poll was the bees knees and that was that and the 'membership' had spoken. So, I figured I was certainly in the minority and that was that. However, I didn't realize that the poll was only given to 2,000 members and that only 7xx had replied and THAT the only time frame for the response was mid-June thru July, I was shocked to say the least. I suffered in both Bloomsburg and Sedalia and was thinking that something is wrong with the process. Now I understand and IMHO the process was/is completely biased and I can't figure out why. Teacher, school students, young people, etc. are handed up as reasons but no one offers any evidence or any 'scientific' data or the meta-data behind these belief's. Do you have anything but a feeling that younger members WANT obliviously hot summer Rally dates? Maybe there is proof and maybe there isn't. All I know is a friend vender wasn't happy, the Rally wasn't a good deal for his company, and he attributed it to the lack of attendance. I know the Rally wasn't a good deal for me because I suffered in the heat and sun. Not one square foot of shade in club camping area!

Also if the BOD doesn't monitor what is being said on their on site then I'd say there something wrong with that too!

Yes, I have contacted the BOD, but not about Rally dates. I was concerned that because of cost the filling of the BOD and the Voting process is/maybe going to change. I asked what cost $13K to elect someone and Ray said they reduced the cost to about $6K and that was mainly for postage. It just goes to show you why we need to make tons of money at the Rally to pay for election process that can afford to mail ballots to 100% of the members, and if need be a second mailing because to get all the positions filled. I don't care for 'appointed' BOD members, just my personal problem.

I also have the believe that common sense will prevail and the dates will be, shall I say more 'suitable'. I still can't get over the 'one' option in the poll mid-June thru July.

I'm not sure about Rally mentality anyway, why couldn't someone couldn't turn off the flames at Bloomsburg? tell them to go to the other end of the area and flame away!

I also know that the members come first and the staff second, so I'm looking for leadership in the hot sun shall I say, ie a BOD camping area without one square foot of shade, or rain protection, and the furthest away from any restroom facilities. Ray's was in the military he knows these things, troops first.

Thanks for the advice and I very much appreciate your point(s) of view. I like you worry about the future if we continue to drive people away. I have said in my other threads that the BOD needs to offer the membership a 'good deal' because you can't drive people away from a good deal. It is their singular responsibility.

Robert,

I also appreciate you concern about the continued viability of the MOA.

I would suggest that with all the BOD has on their plates, monitoring the forum would be pretty low down on their lists. That's why I suggested you e-mail them. I have always gotten a response from them when I contacted them by e-mail. They really are trying to do the right thing for the organization and the members.

I consider you one of the "loyal opposition" who isn't just trying to be argumentative or critical of the BOD but looking for a solution to a problem. Hope to meet you on the road and I will buy the first beverage. :thumb

BTW They can't drive me away as I'm a Lifetime Member. :laugh
 
I would suggest that with all the BOD has on their plates, monitoring the forum would be pretty low down on their lists.

Bud,
I'm going to have to re-read the ON and see what is taking so much of their time beside changing the by-laws.

Ray, Benny (head HOG at the time) and myself, a couple of years ago went on a crusade to make USAA re-insure motorcycles, but we lost. Maybe changing Rally dates might be easier.

I won't be at the MOA Rally, but will try my first RA at Asheville. I can't make the Founder's Feast with Alan to check out his new HID Fuegos (my idea), but the next of town rides will be The Void Rally, then the I-BMW Arkansas Hillbilly Rally in Jasper, AR, and maybe Bike Octoberfest or as I call it an excuse to visit friends in FL.

Ride Safe, AND watch out for bad storms that can lead to large (8" diameter, 40 foot long), tree limbs falling on you as you ride, similar to Wednesday before last!

Robert
 
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