Tire Etiquette

rideoregon said:

I'm not complaining. Fair is fair, even for a regular customer of several years. It then becomes part of the calculus. They made theirs; I make mine.

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Sort of sounds like complaining . . . and you did not answer my questions so the rest of us could evaluate whether the dealer really took advantage of you as you seemed to imply.

my $.02 worth
It's the same as you walking in with internet purchased parts and asking them to install. On the flip side the BMW dealers all seem to charge full retail for tires. While they have full control over pricing of OE parts the same should not apply to tires or aftermarket parts. In my mind give the customer at least 10% off, it gives them a feeling of saving some money.
The best is to set yourself up to do your own tires. I have never farmed that job out except once on the road at 98 degrees high noon.
The other option is to phone around and find the best rate for supply/re&re from independent shops. Be sure to make sure they are reputable as to not scratching rims etc.
If you do buy over the internet be sure to confirm that the tires are not old stock by confirming the date code. This holds especially true for odd sized tires.

No, I acknowledge it's a business deal. No one's "fault". I'm not "complaining." It becomes part of my business calculus. They have theirs, and I have mine. Perfect.

pffog said:

I can understand the dealer being upset, he needs to make $$ to keep the doors open, heat and lights on.

As some said, dealers usually discount installation when they make the sale, so when they charge the flat rate, or hourly rate it usually ends up being $30-$50/ tire and loose the customer because he feels ripped off.

Seems some people want the dealer to take a loss on tire installation which is not fair to them.

Lets look at it from a dealer stand point of cost:
Writing the service order
rolling the bike in and on the stand
removing the wheels
mounting and balancing the tires
The $5 fee/ tire it costs them to get rid of the junk tires
Cleaning the bike after so the customer does not bitch about sloppy work
Filling out the paperwork
Cashier time
Accounting time
Liability if something goes wrong
Getting blamed for the chip on the rim from a stone, now the customer wants a new rim at no cost.

AND we expect it all to cost $20????

Been said before, I would not expect a restaurant to cook and serve lobster I bought at the fish store because it was cheaper then their Market price. Personally I would not have the gall to walk into any business and expect installation of parts I purchased cheaper, when they sell the same item. Maybe it is just me.

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Well said!

rideoregon said:

No, I acknowledge it's a business deal. No one's "fault". I'm not "complaining." It becomes part of my business calculus. They have theirs, and I have mine. Perfect.

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Well, apparently you are not going to answer the questions, so the rest of us will not be able to do our own "business calculus".

Feel free to send me a PM if you want to use this shop in Oregon, and I'll help you do your business calculus.

rideoregon said:

Feel free to send me a PM if you want to use this shop in Oregon, and I'll help you do your business calculus.

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No, you are making a public post that essentially says your BMW shop treated you unfairly, so no need for a PM. You should be able to publicly post simple answers to my two simple questions, so that that rest of us can independently judge. I probably won't be needing any BMW shop in Oregon, but it may be useful for the rest of to know if our local shops are treating us differently than your local shop, and vice versa.

Relax, Tiger. It's not that big a deal. Not sure why it's become such a crusade for you. Let's take a deep breath.

They have their rates posted on the wall. I know what they are. And I've always trusted them to service my bikes calculating the hours accurately and fairly. It's been a mutually-beneficial relationship that has, I think, worked for both of us.

In this case, I'm a long time customer who brought them service business in January. They didn't have to cut me a deal; I had no basis for expecting them to cut me a deal. They didn't cut me a deal. Instead, the owner treated me (again, a longtime customer) like a leper, and service charged me full retail. I assume the tech took 2.7 hours to change the two tires. Fine and fair. It's business.

They clearly didn't like the fact that I bought my tires elsewhere, and they showed it. I didn't realize I was breaching etiquette, which was the subject of my original post.

No hard feelings. No complaints. It's business. It won't have turned out to have been a profitable transaction for them in the longrun, but that's up to them. And to me.

In a free enterprise system, businesses get to decide their policies, and customers get to decide where they do business. It's not a moral statement; just economics.

Peace out.

pffog said:

I can understand the dealer being upset, he needs to make $$ to keep the doors open, heat and lights on.

As some said, dealers usually discount installation when they make the sale, so when they charge the flat rate, or hourly rate it usually ends up being $30-$50/ tire and loose the customer because he feels ripped off.

Seems some people want the dealer to take a loss on tire installation which is not fair to them.

Lets look at it from a dealer stand point of cost:
Writing the service order
rolling the bike in and on the stand
removing the wheels
mounting and balancing the tires
The $5 fee/ tire it costs them to get rid of the junk tires
Cleaning the bike after so the customer does not bitch about sloppy work
Filling out the paperwork
Cashier time
Accounting time
Liability if something goes wrong
Getting blamed for the chip on the rim from a stone, now the customer wants a new rim at no cost.

AND we expect it all to cost $20????

Been said before, I would not expect a restaurant to cook and serve lobster I bought at the fish store because it was cheaper then their Market price. Personally I would not have the gall to walk into any business and expect installation of parts I purchased cheaper, when they sell the same item. Maybe it is just me.

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I'm with you on this one as well.

I take care of my dealer and they take care of me. There is a balance.

rideoregon said:

Relax, Tiger. It's not that big a deal. Not sure why it's become such a crusade for you. Let's take a deep breath.

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Sorry, but it's not a crusade. You started a thread essentially complaining that you thought your BMW shop treated you unfairly, or at least did not treat you like expected to be treated.

Although you never really answered my two questions, it seems the facts are these:

1. You bought a couple of tires on-line for a "smoking-good price".

2. You took your bike and the two tires down to your BMW shop to have them install the tires (apparently, including R/R the wheels on the bike).

3. The BMW shop owner expressed displeasure at you buying your tires elsewhere but bringing your bike and tires to them for installation (but agreed to do the work), but you apparently did NOT ask in advance what the charge would be for this work.

4. You expected to be given the "good customer discount" for this work of installing tires that you bought elsewhere (although you neither asked for it nor were offered it by the BMW shop), but instead the BMW shop charged you their "normal" rate for this work.

5. And now you think the BMW shop treated you unfairly.

Am I pretty close on the facts?

If those are the facts (or close to it), then I don't really have much sympathy for your case. In my opinion, the equities are just not on your side. You made your "savings" in buying the tires, and then you paid the normal price for BMW shop installation on your bike.

Next time, you should determine the TOTAL COST of a tire change (tire purchase AND installation), before you decide which option is truly the "smoking-good price".

I dont know about others' experiences

but i know that when i had several services done to my RT, and questioned how many times i was charged to take the tupperware off, i got absolutely lambasted by the owner of the shop. Maybe some shops are willing to discuss their pricing, but mine certainly isn't. And frankly they are 15% to 25% higher than on-line prices. Then they wonder why i don't do all my business with them.....

sdpc2 said:

Maybe some shops are willing to discuss their pricing, but mine certainly isn't.

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Then the answer is to go to another shop that will discuss their pricing (although they may not be willing to negotiate about it) . . . and maybe also send a polite complaint to BMW.

BeemerMike said:

4. You expected to be given the "good customer discount" for this work of installing tires that you bought elsewhere (although you neither asked for it nor were offered it by the BMW shop), but instead the BMW shop charged you their "normal" rate for this work.

5. And now you think the BMW shop treated you unfairly.

Am I pretty close on the facts?

Next time, you should determine the TOTAL COST of a tire change (tire purchase AND installation), before you decide which option is truly the "smoking-good price".

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1. No, you are not close on the facts. How many times do I have to reiterate that I'm NOT complaining, that I did NOT expect a discount and that I do NOT feel treated unfairly? You could try reading posts before responding to them. Sheesh. The dealer got pissed and showed it. I'll react accordingly. No hard feelings. It's just bidness, for him and for me. Comprende?

2. I wasn't asking for your advice about how to deal with future situations. But thanks. I'll file it appropriately.

rideoregon said:

1. No, you are not close on the facts.

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Well, I asked what the facts were.

rideoregon said:

How many times do I have to reiterate that I'm NOT complaining, that I did NOT expect a discount and that I do NOT feel treated unfairly? You could try reading posts before responding to them. Sheesh. The dealer got pissed and showed it. I'll react accordingly. No hard feelings. It's just bidness, for him and for me. Comprende?

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So, your ONLY problem about this whole episode was that the dealer acted pissed off when they did the work for you? Is that really the intended point of this thread? If that's the case, then I don't really see what else you planned to PM me about. I also don't understand the purpose of this post by you (and another similar post talking about what you were charged for the work), which I did read:

"I went to pick up my bike, fully expecting to pay shop prices for the work installing my tires. So the dealer charged me for 2.7 hours -- $193 to mount two tires. No one would look me in the eye. I didn't say a word. Just paid the bill and left.

Guess he showed me.

Fair enough. I'll factor that in when making future decisions about where to buy parts and/or service my 2 beemers. No hard feelings. Lots of alternatives."

My experience has been that when people talk about the cost, but say that cost is not really the issue, cost really IS the issue. Sorry for my misunderstanding here.

Every time I see these posts, the out come is the same it is a LOse-Lose situation all around.

Dealer policy restricts installation of outside tires= He is a SOB
Dealer tries to make a small profit on his tire sales= Dealer is a rip off
Dealer installs tires= Dealer looses $, closes doors and customers bitch because they have to drive xxx miles for service.
Dealer charges shop rate to install customers tires= Read above.................

Lose-Lose

Sorry it turned out that way for you, but live and learn I guess.

pffog said:

Sorry it turned out that way for you, but live and learn I guess.

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No, no . . . apparently if the dealer had charged the shop rate for the installation (which he did), but had SMILED ABOUT IT (which he did not), then everything would have been OK.

as i see it:
dealers may need to charge more than many other places due to overhead costs. however, tire purchasing & installation is a fairly competitive aspect of the business- i can get tires most anywhere, but i can't get my OEM parts from SWMoto.
BUT, i can't figure out any justification for $193 labor on mounting a set of tires onto a K75- the front wheel is off & then back on in about 20 minutes total, and the rear is maybe 30 (assuming you remove the half fender in back). give some additional leeway to the shop, and call that 1 hr. i'm a rookie, using inferior equipment, and i can dismount, mount & balance 2 tires in well under an hour. give another hour to the shop. where's the extra .7 hours? that's another $50-$75 for ????
i'm pretty tired of the argument "if we don't give business to the dealer, they won't be around when we need them." how about "if the shop fails to treat customers fairly, and works at being both realistic (charge 3x for removing fairing because each individual job gives time for that to happen? ) & competitive in their pricing, they will be out of business"? it's a 2 way street- we need them, but they need us just as much.

bikerfish1100 said:

BUT, i can't figure out any justification for $193 labor on mounting a set of tires onto a K75

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But Bikerfish, the problem here is NOT the charge, it's the BMW shop's attitude. RO has indicated that he has no objection to the amount he was charged for the work.

I think that this is a subject that covers basic customer satisfaction. Sure, some people are just plain cheap some frugal and some just blow money like it's going out of style. Somehow the businesses that you patronize need to leave you with a feeling of satisfaction if you are to ever come back whatever your "style". It seems like the dealer in question did alright for himself without the profit on the sale of the tires, and yet managed to alienate the customer.

Lots of good businesses have gone under by ticking off customers without doing anything dishonest. Every business that I deal with is only as good to me as our last (satisfactory to me) transaction.

Very simple solution here... Buy your tires on line, then bring them to me. Pull into my spacious Garage and remove your wheel with my tools. ( I'll help you ) then I will mount and balance your new tire, and dispose of your old tire. I'll do all this for $ 25.00 per wheel, and we will have a great time. PS If you have spoke wheels, you will need to bring your own weights.