moving the rally to the spring or fall

The complaints have nothing at all to do with the people who present the rally or how great a job they do. They should be commended.

This thread is about the when.

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and it appears "the when" will never change. i wonder how many who serve on the board are teachers or have school age children, since that seems to be a sticking point to moving the rally to a different month.

Do you have a gripe? Then send it directly to us at our email address: board@bmwmoa.org

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yes i do have a gripe and that is the board does not seem to want to address what appears to be a very real issue.

Continuous Improvement

Sorry for this long post...

As sent to the BMWMOA Board at board@bmwmoa.org

For a number of years, I have worked as one of the main organizers for a small MINI Cooper Rally (~450 people, 250+ cars) in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. And, while I cannot fathom the excellence of organization and execution it took to carry-off this year's rally (my first), I do know that unbiased survey responses from this year's attendees can provide very important data for the Board to consider in planning the 2013 event. This was the case with our MINIs On Top event and it provided some surprising information that led to the continuous improvement of the event.

Today's online survey tools (like SurveyMonkey) make the gathering and reporting of survey data a snap. The key to receiving the most useful data, however, is the creation of the survey itself; volumes have been written about survey theory and technique. When the survey ends, the results can be both reassuring and surprising. Regardless, the data can show what potential adjustments are important to the people being served by your efforts, and show "success models" upon which future improvement plans can be based.

----

Clearly there is a schism (real or perceived) between the Board and the Membership. Highly critical posts in forums are not truly representational of all Membership thought, and some current Board precepts may be unduly limiting or outdated. However, the gathering, reporting and processing of unbiased, anonymous data may tend to reduce the schism by fostering better communication.

If I were "the Board", before I instituted change I would want to make sure that the change is warranted and supported by the majority of the Membership. Further, I would want to know as soon as possible about any opportunities for organizational or philosophical improvement so that I may better serve "the Membership". I would view this continuous improvement of the organization and its philosophies as the main deterrent to loss of "the Membership".

If I were "the Membership", I would want to rest assured that "the Board" has annual (timely) feedback representing not only my thoughts, but those of my sister and brother members. I might think that an email address for feedback is not formal enough (like forum posts) to represent all views and might easily allow my feedback to drop into a "black hole". However, I would view the (published) annual feedback survey to be the hallmark of a broadly-thinking and highly-responsive "Board". I would also view their publishing of the annual results of all the feedback as a valuable channel of communication about the successes and improvement opportunities available to BOTH "the Board" and "the Membership".

----

I would like to propose that the Board approves the creation of an "Annual Member Survey" initiative. The initiative will:

1. institute an online "Annual Member Survey" feedback collection, evaluation, and publication process meant to publicly identify continuous improvement opportunities to the Association's services to its Members;

2. solicit feedback from the Membership about all aspects of the Association's services (including rallies, benefits, foundations, etc.);

3. publish all the statistical data from the survey (fostering open communication) online and in the Owners News;

4. publicly and formally identify the new areas of continuous improvement to be undertaken in the coming years while reporting on the progress (through the survey's statistical data) of current continuous improvement initiatives (as targeted in prior Annual Member Surveys);

5. identify a Board Member or her/his appointed volunteer who will "own" each of the current improvement initiatives and provide his/her email address.

rbertalotto said:

This was the first time I was a committee chair at an MOA rally. I got to see and witness the inner workings of one of these rallys.

All I can say is "AMAZING"..........the amount of work and dedication that these volunteers endure is simply fantastic. I don't care what happens, no one can complain. These folks did a great job dealing with thousands of issues, 24 hours a day for over a week. And they ALL did it for us. So we could have a good and safe time..........Nuff said!

If the rally was held anytime other than summer, I predict a 50% reduction in attendance. Dealing with kids in school, lack of volunteers, much busier work schedules most other t9imes of the year would all have an effect.

One small comment...........No matter what, seminars need to be in air conditioned buildings..........

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I volunteered for 8 hours on Thursday and I was beat. I can't imagine surviving the time the rally and committee chairs put in! They did all they could do to make it bearable!

khill said:

The people who complain about the heat I feel would not show up if it was 70 degrees and you were giving away free tickets..The people who were there had a great time..As for the ones who set at home and complained about the heat, You missed a good time..Deal with it...

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Beating up on people who didn't go because of the heat is not only uncalled for, but it also is a refusal to listen to a valid point.

If it's too hot, I'm not going. You and the BMW MOA can deal with that...

By the way I have shown up at rallies, at Rhinebeck, Vermont, and Trenton, Ontario. I'd show up at more if my job didn't severely limit my time off during construction season.

Harry

nytrashman said:

and it appears "the when" will never change. i wonder how many who serve on the board are teachers or have school age children, since that seems to be a sticking point to moving the rally to a different month.



yes i do have a gripe and that is the board does not seem to want to address what appears to be a very real issue.

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George, have you ever called MOA HQ or tried to contact anyone from the board? All of my inquiries were met with friendly replies and an effort to get me in touch with someone who could help me. And I received all of the answers I needed.

I understand that you had a last minute issue that prevented you from attending last week. That sucks and I hope everything is getting better. But give me some specifics on how the staff and volunteers from the MOA are ignoring your requests so I can bring them to some of the 'influential members' that you listed earlier in this thread. I met a bunch of great 'influential' people last week and they are interested in making these events as good as they can be for the entire MOA membership.

nytrashman said:

and it appears "the when" will never change. i wonder how many who serve on the board are teachers or have school age children, since that seems to be a sticking point to moving the rally to a different month.



yes i do have a gripe and that is the board does not seem to want to address what appears to be a very real issue.

Click to expand...

nytrashman...

I posted what I thought was a brief, but concise explanation of why we currently select dates in July for our rally. The "BOARD" does not make this decision - - - the decision is made by the general membership through the Membership Survey which is conducted every 4 or 5 years.

The last unbiased survey we conducted in 2009 of the membership
indicated that overall, most members still prefer the rally in July,
and on a weekend.

The 2009 survey I am talking about had several facets: One facet
included telephone calls to members who were asked if they had 20
minutes for this survey. Another facet happened at the rally in
Johnson City (July 2009), where we conducted three Focus Group sessions
comprised of randomly selected rally-goers, with some of the questions
specifically centered on the National Rally. These telephones calls &
focus groups were managed by a research company who is not affiliated
with the BMW MOA. It was our goal to gather unbiased information where
people could speak freely.

The results indicated that our members still prefer July weekends. You
might be interested to know that the board recently decided that rally
sites would be considered "earlier in the summer" if the dates were the
only variable stopping us from considering a site.

As an alternative, we have started hosting Regional Events in the
spring and fall, in attempt to accommodate those members who would
prefer different months for their yearly gatherings. Maybe one of
these would work better for you? This year we have a gathering in
Cedar City, Utah in late September, and one in Tomah, Wisconsin on the
last weekend of September.

Other considerations that we must take into account would be that we do
not want to conflict with our Chartered Club rallies, and that our
volunteer workforce may not be available during alternative dates.

Thank you again. I hope this helps to explain how and why we remain in July.
Just because the answer is not what you want it to be, does not mean that the board isn't listening.

> > > No More Happy Faces from me in this thread. < < <

I for one, am quite satisfied with the July date of the national..After being involved with smaller events for the last thirty years, I know that nothing can killl a good event faster than moving it around..Attendees, vendors, and many others save that date a year in advance..Move it around and they just look elsewhere..As for the people who said they did not attend because of the weather, They are the ones who probably would not have came anyway..If you wanted to be there, You would have found a way....

moondog said:

Amen brother. Too damn hot to be on a bike or try and sleep in heat like this. One vote from me to move it to different time of year, especially if they hold it in Vermont again during the fall foliage. What more could one ask for?

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As a former New Englander, I can assure you that camping in NE during fall season is a recipe for 50F and rain more often than not.

No more July/August rallies for me!

I will never again attend another July/August rally , MOA or other, held in the middle of a field/fairground. Exceptions might be the U.P. MI or Caribou Maine. I cancelled my reservations for next year's MOA rally in Missouri.

Sue said:

nytrashman...

I posted what I thought was a brief, but concise explanation of why we currently select dates in July for our rally. The "BOARD" does not make this decision - - - the decision is made by the general membership through the Membership Survey which is conducted every 4 or 5 years.

...

> > > No More Happy Faces from me in this thread. < < <

Click to expand...

Sue -

Thanks for the explanation.

I posted what I thought was a brief, but concise explanation of why we currently select dates in July for our rally. The "BOARD" does not make this decision - - - the decision is made by the general membership through the Membership Survey which is conducted every 4 or 5 years.

The last unbiased survey we conducted in 2009 of the membership
indicated that overall, most members still prefer the rally in July,
and on a weekend.

The 2009 survey I am talking about had several facets: One facet
included telephone calls to members who were asked if they had 20
minutes for this survey. Another facet happened at the rally in
Johnson City (July 2009), where we conducted three Focus Group sessions
comprised of randomly selected rally-goers, with some of the questions
specifically centered on the National Rally. These telephones calls &
focus groups were managed by a research company who is not affiliated
with the BMW MOA. It was our goal to gather unbiased information where
people could speak freely.

The results indicated that our members still prefer July weekends. You
might be interested to know that the board recently decided that rally
sites would be considered "earlier in the summer" if the dates were the
only variable stopping us from considering a site.

As an alternative, we have started hosting Regional Events in the
spring and fall, in attempt to accommodate those members who would
prefer different months for their yearly gatherings. Maybe one of
these would work better for you? This year we have a gathering in
Cedar City, Utah in late September, and one in Tomah, Wisconsin on the
last weekend of September.

Other considerations that we must take into account would be that we do
not want to conflict with our Chartered Club rallies, and that our
volunteer workforce may not be available during alternative dates.

Thank you again. I hope this helps to explain how and why we remain in July.
Just because the answer is not what you want it to be, does not mean that the board isn't listening.

Click to expand...

so there's the answer in a nut shell. might just as well close/lock this thread then as everyone, myself included, who commented about moving the rally dates should be satisfied that the board has addressed this issue in it's entirety.

although this does answer any questions I may have, beware that the writing is on the wall, the only question that remains is whether you choose to see it or not.

so, now that we have gotten this all squared away and settled i would like to know how many people (teachers & school kids included) were treated for dehydration and or heat stroke at this years rally. i am sure the volunteers at the first aid station did an admirable job and should be commended, but out of the roughly 6800 rally attendees what percentage succumbed to some type of heat related illness.

Too bad the weather has become the primary discussion here. Weather will happen no matter where or when you have the rally. Might be hot, might get cold. Good chance it could get rained out. If we had 4 days of pouring rain, would everyone still be complaining about the date? It's just part of the deal with outdoor events that you can't control the weather. If the planners scheduled a rally in GA in July, I'd have an issue. NE PA is supposed to be nice this time of year!
I do agree that some flexibility in dates is a good idea. I'm "new" to the BMW family, but have been riding motorcycles for decades and been to plenty of bike rallies.
Daytona happens in March, during the school year and never seems to have a shortage of attendees. October works pretty well there too. Myrtle Beach in April... The list goes on.
I guess I'm confused about who the MOA rally is for. I hear lots of talk about kids and school, but from what I've seen at the events, there are not enough kids involved to make them a priority. Teachers? What ratio? That's like saying all Harley guys are doctors and lawyers. You could prioritize the retiree segment just as easily... What am I missing?
We ride motorcycles. Weather will always be a factor in our chosen hobby. If you want perfect climate control, sell the bike and buy an RV!

Sue said:

nytrashman...

I posted what I thought was a brief, but concise explanation of why we currently select dates in July for our rally. The "BOARD" does not make this decision - - - the decision is made by the general membership through the Membership Survey which is conducted every 4 or 5 years.

The last unbiased survey we conducted in 2009 of the membership
indicated that overall, most members still prefer the rally in July,
and on a weekend.

The 2009 survey I am talking about had several facets: One facet
included telephone calls to members who were asked if they had 20
minutes for this survey. Another facet happened at the rally in
Johnson City (July 2009), where we conducted three Focus Group sessions
comprised of randomly selected rally-goers, with some of the questions
specifically centered on the National Rally. These telephones calls &
focus groups were managed by a research company who is not affiliated
with the BMW MOA. It was our goal to gather unbiased information where
people could speak freely.

The results indicated that our members still prefer July weekends. You
might be interested to know that the board recently decided that rally
sites would be considered "earlier in the summer" if the dates were the
only variable stopping us from considering a site.

As an alternative, we have started hosting Regional Events in the
spring and fall, in attempt to accommodate those members who would
prefer different months for their yearly gatherings. Maybe one of
these would work better for you? This year we have a gathering in
Cedar City, Utah in late September, and one in Tomah, Wisconsin on the
last weekend of September.

Other considerations that we must take into account would be that we do
not want to conflict with our Chartered Club rallies, and that our
volunteer workforce may not be available during alternative dates.

Thank you again. I hope this helps to explain how and why we remain in July.
Just because the answer is not what you want it to be, does not mean that the board isn't listening.

> > > No More Happy Faces from me in this thread. < < <

Click to expand...

Sue,
Thanks for the explanation. However I would highly suggest for the board to conduct a general poll for the timing of the rally instead of using focus groups and telephone surveys. It might be a very surprising outcome.
My prediction is if the board chooses places like MO in the middle of the July, rally attendance will go down every year. I for one won't be there along with couple other people that I know.

FWIW

Post Count:
Low post count around here does not always indicate new blood around here. You need to dig a little deeper. Rally time brings many long term rally rats to the site for short periods of time. At the same time for a forum that places negative value on high post counts a lot of people spend a lot of time building their count in the 'word association' thread.

ÔÇ£Memberships are declining in every club I know not just the MOAÔÇØ
I agree, this has been my observation in my general reading on the topic. In most cases you see it in an overall decline in a type of activity or behavior. Overall the membership numbers show a high retention rate. What has always confused me is the rate of BMW sales v MOA membership, but most of that is fodder for another thread.

With respect to moving the time of the rally what should not be lost in the discussion is the double edged sword the date presents to membership. The rally is linked to membership renewals and thus affects our business. Moving the rally time could help attract new members, cost membership or have no bloody impact, but it has to be considered in the process.

Putting on the Rally v When and what
I am always impressed with the rally that is put on. It is something that overall members should be proud of and constantly thankful to the everyone involved form Rally Chairs to the people who volunteer for shifts when they show up. It is too bad when the on going discussions of when rallies should take place and what should happen at them turns into attacks (real or perceived) of those fine people and their efforts.

The forum and doing club business
We don't do club business here rather we talk about and very heatedly at times.
It has never been an official way of communicating to or from the BOD.
Officers that show up and talk are fellow peons here. Sue, for example, shows up often and that is cool. She is a multi term officer, multi time rally chair and has a pretty good post count. She gives as good as she gets and it is always fun to have her posting in a thread.

What we miss some times is the forum is a great place to discuss, vent, fly trial balloons and maybe find fellow members that would be willing to help champion an idea. If we get past posturing and organize and do some work developing ideas and present them you can affect change. The officers follow the forum. What is clear is ideas and complaints aired here are important to pay attention to but don't have the membership effort and rear wheel horsepower to move up the incredibly long to do list in proportion to the loud pipes those powering the discussion.

I've been a member since 1983 and have only been able to make 7 or 8 Nationals. There were many I missed because they were held in July, but wanted to attend, but with my job, getting off in the summer was not easy.
I've pretty much given up on the date being changed and somehow missed the survey done in 2009 which I would have responded to asking for a fall or spring National.
I'll send a note to the board asking for a date change, but will not hold my breath that a change will happen.
I'm not sure why I replied to this thread or why I'll bother sending an email to the board.
28 years, and a lot of National I've missed because we're stuck with July.

Sue said:

nytrashman...

I posted what I thought was a brief, but concise explanation of why we currently select dates in July for our rally. The "BOARD" does not make this decision - - - the decision is made by the general membership through the Membership Survey which is conducted every 4 or 5 years.

The last unbiased survey we conducted in 2009 of the membership
indicated that overall, most members still prefer the rally in July,
and on a weekend.

The 2009 survey I am talking about had several facets: One facet
included telephone calls to members who were asked if they had 20
minutes for this survey. Another facet happened at the rally in
Johnson City (July 2009), where we conducted three Focus Group sessions
comprised of randomly selected rally-goers, with some of the questions
specifically centered on the National Rally. These telephones calls &
focus groups were managed by a research company who is not affiliated
with the BMW MOA. It was our goal to gather unbiased information where
people could speak freely.

The results indicated that our members still prefer July weekends. You
might be interested to know that the board recently decided that rally
sites would be considered "earlier in the summer" if the dates were the
only variable stopping us from considering a site.

As an alternative, we have started hosting Regional Events in the
spring and fall, in attempt to accommodate those members who would
prefer different months for their yearly gatherings. Maybe one of
these would work better for you? This year we have a gathering in
Cedar City, Utah in late September, and one in Tomah, Wisconsin on the
last weekend of September.

Other considerations that we must take into account would be that we do
not want to conflict with our Chartered Club rallies, and that our
volunteer workforce may not be available during alternative dates.

Thank you again. I hope this helps to explain how and why we remain in July.
Just because the answer is not what you want it to be, does not mean that the board isn't listening.

> > > No More Happy Faces from me in this thread. < < <

Click to expand...

Hey Sue - I appreciate your detailed comments about why July seems to get 'top billing,' but nothing quoted was so persuasive as to exclude serious consideration of a fall rally.

And as for statistics, that's a minefield on the best of days. You spoke of a 'survey,' but I was never contacted. Neither was an MOA buddy down the road or another in a near-by village. Point in fact, when out of 35,000+ members, you only contract for a few hundred phone calls and pester a few hundred rally attendees, you've conducted a poll - not a survey.

Not sure what "the majority" of MOA'ers want for rally dates, but I suspect July is falling out of favor faster than you think.

Greenwald said:

Point in fact, when out of 35,000+ members, you only contract for a few hundred phone calls and pester a few hundred rally attendees, you've conducted a poll - not a survey.

Click to expand...

That's the first I heard of that.

Why not stick a "tip in" survey card into the Owners News?

Welllll, I have made my decision and will not be renewing my MOA membership. I will continue to belong to the ABC (Airheads Beemer Club) and attend some of the many good tech sessions that are held all over North America for the camaraderie and good times to be enjoyed when small groups get together to share information and learn about their machines. Large organized and commercialized events are just not for me. Very little interests me in the MOA magazine as well. Odds are I have purchased my last new BMW/MC ('04RT) as the brand has become just another producer of high tech over the top machines that hold no interest for me. Bought my first new beemer in '77 after choosing the marque for its simplicity and reliability but that was then.

See ya and enjoy Missouri.

p.s. And you can just bet the Missouri rally will be in July.

Why not stick a "tip in" survey card into the Owners News?

Click to expand...

because the results they get will not be what they want.

Sad, but true!

nytrashman said:

because the results they get will not be what they want.

Click to expand...

+1, Gunny!