Looking to switch...

After 10 years with an oilhead, one ride on a new KGT and I'm hooked. What a great ride! I know I'm not saying anything most of you already know, but I was just blown away.

My questions:
1) In general, is the K12GT "easily" serviceable by the home wrencher? My R1100R is really a piece of cake as far as routine services. Even a spline lube is doable with enough information and time. Can fluid changes, valves, tires and basic electrical maintenence be done in the driveway or is the GT the kind of bike that always needs the dealers attention (even for the easy, routine stuff)?

2) Any major issues I should be aware of when looking at an 05-07 K12GT? I'm not looking for reasons to disuade me from a purchase, I would just like and idea as to what I can potentially expect. Are splines and issue on this model? What about final drives? Coming off of 10 years with an oilhead, I'm quite familiar with spline issues and such. Just wondering if these things persist with the K as well.

Thanks in advance for any input. I hope that by Christmas time I'll be posting a photo of my "new" KGT.

86755 said:

After 10 years with an oilhead, one ride on a new KGT and I'm hooked. What a great ride! I know I'm not saying anything most of you already know, but I was just blown away.

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That was my same reaction when I test road the bike - jaw on the floor, not from the speed but the complete package.

86755 said:

My questions:
1) In general, is the K12GT "easily" serviceable by the home wrencher? My R1100R is really a piece of cake as far as routine services. Even a spline lube is doable with enough information and time. Can fluid changes, valves, tires and basic electrical maintenence be done in the driveway or is the GT the kind of bike that always needs the dealers attention (even for the easy, routine stuff)?

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Over the weekend I took all the plastic off since i was wiring in my Zumo/Autocom/XM Antenna - from the looks of it:

- Front brakes - doable
- Read Brakes - doable
- Oil and Filter - different from the RT but doable with a revised process
- Rear drive - doable
- Air Filter - doable


Things that would need further investigation:

Valves

Radiator Fluid

And tranny - just because I did not look at it

86755 said:

2) Any major issues I should be aware of when looking at an 05-07 K12GT? I'm not looking for reasons to disuade me from a purchase, I would just like and idea as to what I can potentially expect. Are splines and issue on this model? What about final drives? Coming off of 10 years with an oilhead, I'm quite familiar with spline issues and such. Just wondering if these things persist with the K as well.

Thanks in advance for any input. I hope that by Christmas time I'll be posting a photo of my "new" KGT.

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Too new to the GT to provide assistance in the years your looking at.

Good to hear. Thanks for the info.
And you're right about the complete package. Its a great machine.

Semper_Fi said:

Things that would need further investigation:

Valves

Radiator Fluid

And tranny - just because I did not look at it
.

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The valves need to be checked at about 18K first time. I have yet to hear of any needing adjustment. The radiator needs to be removed (simple) and the fluid replaced by drawing a vacuum on the system (this is done with a tool that uses air pressure to draw a vacuum) and presenting the fluid to it (too many nooks and crannys?). The transmission is a cassette type inside the engine on the left side and shares the engine oil with the rest of the engine.

cjack said:

The valves need to be checked at about 18K first time. I have yet to hear of any needing adjustment. The radiator needs to be removed (simple) and the fluid replaced by drawing a vacuum on the system (this is done with a tool that uses air pressure to draw a vacuum) and presenting the fluid to it (too many nooks and crannys?). The transmission is a cassette type inside the engine on the left side and shares the engine oil with the rest of the engine.

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thanks Jack - much appreciated

1) In general, is the K12GT "easily" serviceable by the home wrencher? My R1100R is really a piece of cake as far as routine services. Even a spline lube is doable with enough information and time. Can fluid changes, valves, tires and basic electrical maintenence be done in the driveway or is the GT the kind of bike that always needs the dealers attention (even for the easy, routine stuff)?

Oil and filter (which includes the trans) no problem. Tires no problem. Brakes no problem. Basic electrical maintenance I am confused about. Replacing battery is a snap. Adding to system can be hard due to Can Bus system. Will probably need dealer for brake flushes, coolant flushes, and anything where the cooling system is opened (see CJacks comments). Radiator comes out for valves and spark plugs as i understand it.

2) Any major issues I should be aware of when looking at an 05-07 K12GT? I'm not looking for reasons to disuade me from a purchase, I would just like and idea as to what I can potentially expect. Are splines and issue on this model? What about final drives? Coming off of 10 years with an oilhead, I'm quite familiar with spline issues and such. Just wondering if these things persist with the K as well.

Splines I have NOT heard of any issues, but the problem with the final drives are well-documented. I think more so on the 1200's due to the higher hp. Some complain of fueling issues, which continue on to the 1300's I guess. Most everything can be fixed with updates, so will be better to find a newer bike with warranty remaining on it. Problems with antenna rings around the ignition switch (driver authorization system), there is a recall for that. Center stands breaking. People unhappy with riding position and wind protection. I think it's worth it, at least so far, what a ride! Find a Dk. Graphite one, that's the FAST color.
Check out this site:
http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/index.php?

Thanks in advance for any input. I hope that by Christmas time I'll be posting a photo of my "new" KGT.[/QUOTE]

Gilly said:

1) ..... Adding to system can be hard due to Can Bus system.

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Not really - the Canbus can be by-passed with any fuse panel aftermarket item

Popular ones are Centech and BlueSea and there are others provided by Touratech.

Personally I like the Centech due to higher current capacity.

I just added one to my GT - peice of cake, same as it was on the RT.

Another fuse possibility



Fuzeblock <- Check Out This Link

I have installed a couple of them on my bikes. Super easy to install and no external relay required since it is all in once neat package about the size of a pack of playing cards.

PAULBACH said:

Fuzeblock <- Check Out This Link

I have installed a couple of them on my bikes. Super easy to install and no external relay required since it is all in once neat package about the size of a pack of playing cards.

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That's a nice item. I like the option of switched/unswitched by changing the position of the fuse.

Semper_Fi said:

Not really - the Canbus can be by-passed with any fuse panel aftermarket item

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What I am attempting to get across is that it is not like trying to add things to a non-Can Bus bike. SURE you can do it, but not without modifying/adding things JUST to do it. You need to always take the Can Bus in to account. I never said it can't be done.

Gilly

Gilly said:

What I am attempting to get across is that it is not like trying to add things to a non-Can Bus bike. SURE you can do it, but not without modifying/adding things JUST to do it. You need to always take the Can Bus in to account. I never said it can't be done.

Gilly

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Your point is well taken and understood. The sensitivity in the "can bus" bikes (which has nothing to do with having a can bus) is that when you add extra loads to a circuit or take loads away from a circuit, the chassis controller throws a fault. In the case of the earlier non can bus bikes, the additional load, if not exceeding the fuse rating, would not be noticed. As well if you disconnected or burned out a lamp, this would also not be noticed unless you looked at the lamp.
So the difference is that the can bus bike is more exact and notifies you on what current the circuit is supposed to draw over a narrow range whereas the bike with the fuses is somewhat sloppy on the matter of normal current draw. And for most things, does not notify you when things are abnormal.
So naturally, to add or subtract things (current loads) you must either leave the existing circuits alone and create new ones directly from the battery, or know exactly what you are changing and how to do it so the existing circuit doesn't detect a change outside of an acceptable range.
So I would say the first way is easy (as did Semper_Fi), and the latter way is as you say "hard"...probably...for most owners.

Gilly said:

What I am attempting to get across is that it is not like trying to add things to a non-Can Bus bike. SURE you can do it, but not without modifying/adding things JUST to do it. You need to always take the Can Bus in to account. I never said it can't be done.

Gilly

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Gilly - i was responding to your statement that it was hard to get around the CanBus - I stated it was not for the reasons I gave.

With the new bikes and cars with the single wire system you must take it into consideration

cjack said:

............
So naturally, to add or subtract things (current loads) you must either leave the existing circuits alone and create new ones directly from the battery, or know exactly what you are changing and how to do it so the existing circuit doesn't detect a change outside of an acceptable range.
So I would say the first way is easy (as did Semper_Fi), and the latter way is as you say "hard"...probably...for most owners.

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CJack - very thoughful and complete response as always

Forgive my ignornace, but what is the CanBus system exactly? From what I've read above it deals with power distribution among various electrical systems.

86755 said:

Forgive my ignornace, but what is the CanBus system exactly? From what I've read above it deals with power distribution among various electrical systems.

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From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controller–area_network

"ControllerÔÇôarea network (CAN or CAN-bus) is a vehicle bus standard designed to allow microcontrollers and devices to communicate with each other within a vehicle without a host computer."

The bus is just a twisted pair transmission line with a ground shield over it that runs between the various computers on the bike (something like five of these computers depending on the model and extras). That way the engine management computer can communicate with say the display unit computer and share info like the bike's mileage for example. However the issue we have to deal with when putting farkles on these bikes is usually the ZFE which is the central chassis controller. The ZFE controls most all the current loads for lights, etc. and shuts down these circuits if the current exceeds certain limits. For lights, if the load goes away like the lamp burning out, the ZFE sends a warning to the display unit via the can bus...so that's the only place the can bus gets involved if you are messing with these existing circuits.
Naturally, if you put an additional circuit on the bike directly from the battery, turned on and off with the ignition with an added relay AND the current to operate the relay is drawn from a circuit which will tolerate another say 100ma or less...there will be no issues with the ZFE or messages from the can bus about it.

KGT magic...........all I can say is go ahead and get one. But only if you really like
the killer power and fantistic handling. I traded in my 08 RT on the K13GT. Took it back up to NC and hit the good roads, the Dragon, etc. that I had run on the RT.
The RT was great but being a power freak I like the GT better. 3600 miles in a couple months and no problems. Like any piece of hardware, getting one with some warranty still on it is always a good idea.

DWR302 said:

KGT magic...........all I can say is go ahead and get one. But only if you really like the killer power and fantistic handling. I traded in my 08 RT on the K13GT. Took it back up to NC and hit the good roads, the Dragon, etc. that I had run on the RT.
The RT was great but being a power freak I like the GT better. 3600 miles in a couple months and no problems. Like any piece of hardware, getting one with some warranty still on it is always a good idea.

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You're speaking the truth brother - loved the RT but the GT is just at a different level!

Roger that, Semper Fi.

I would have to actually see the Can lines on a bmw bike, but they don't need to be shielded when you have a 2 wire Can. That's why you have 2 wires.
Gilly

Bus issues with other vehicles

Not trying to hijack the thread, just thought I would add a little something regarding bus systems in newer vehicles.

Friend has an '08 GMC Avalanche that lost the alternator in Ohio (We live near Chicago) late last year. The GMC dealer in Cleveland did not have the exact replacement in stock ($600.00 & 3 days) but did have an after-market version ($400.00) that supposedly was an exact match to the OEM. Friend had the after-market unit installed and drove home. He noticed problems with the electrical system about a month after replacing the alternator, but for months no one could pinpoint the problem. He had the car at the local GMC dealer (again) after the rear defogger did not work during a spring storm. Finally, a bright and detailed-oriented tech figured out the the after-market alternator was not putting out enough current; it was undersized.

The bus system on the GMC would ration the current to the different systems on the truck (some kind of software hierarchy of needs?) depending on what was running. So even though the defogger circuit would show a voltage, the current to it was limited. However, there was enough current to run the windshield wipers and fan for the front window defroster. An older vehicle without the newer bus system would have probably pulled current from the battery as needed for all the operating electrical systems potentially draining the battery.

The newer bus (CANbus or others) systems are not as robust or easy to work on as the older vehicle electrical systems. Unless the person working on the electrical system has full knowledge of the bus and its limitations, it could be easy to mess things up.

Now back to our regular programming........

"Maybe" to all that. From what I am reading, I would more suspect that the problem was just the undersize alternator. I don't think the bus will regulate, for example, how much current is or isn't going to go to a component. It will switch it on or off, that's all. With a smaller alternator, it just didn't have the jolts to let the defogger work very well, those things really suck the juice, which is usually why they only work for 10 or 15 minutes (even on the older cars), then shut themselves off. The wiper motor and blower motor, other than the spike you get when you turn them on, don't take as much amps to operate. Starter motor, headlights, horn, electric defogger grids, those are the big electric consumers. If the guy was in a storm and the headlights and wipers are on, along with the windshield defogger (which usually makes the AC operate as well), the truck probably just didn't have as many amps running through the grid as he should have (didn't know GM trucks even had rear defogger grids to be honest). Probably would have been reflected in system voltage, if it has a gauge package (volt meter).


PS Oh I see, an Avalanche, yeah I guess they do have a rear defogger, I was thinking full size truck
Gilly