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No brake exercise.
- Thread starter motorman587
- Start date
motorman587
New member
Another shot.
Attachments
WalterK75
Active member
I'm sure this can be done, but I prefer to drag the rear brake on my K75. This clutch procedure may be better with integrated brakes, which I don't have. I feel it's too easy to change the pressure on the clutch during a turn and thereby accidentally unbalance the bike or cause it to lurch forward. On the other hand, maybe I need to practice better clutch control.
bikerfish1100
New member
be aware that regular use of friction zone (the "other" FZ) on a single-plate dry clutch bike (all R and Klassic-K BMWs) will insure very short clutch life, which will insure either a costly or time-consuming replacement.
motorman587
New member
And that is why we teach new motor cops instructors to teach the no brake method for the cost and damage on clutch repair.
22600
rsbeemer
I'm cornfused
Is BikerFish and Motorman agreeing with each other or disagreeing with each other?
Is BikerFish and Motorman agreeing with each other or disagreeing with each other?
motorman587
New member
Is BikerFish and Motorman agreeing with each other or disagreeing with each other?
Sorry, did not read the post above his. What happens when the wife and the kids are ready to go. lol
greenwald
New member
Is BikerFish and Motorman agreeing with each other or disagreeing with each other?
Yes - basically both stating something similar, just from different perspectives.
When I trained as a Motor Officer, use of rear brake drag was essential to the proficiency of most exercises. The trainers however mentioned that to become an H-D Motor Officer Instructor, they needed to demonstrate the same maneuvers without use of braking, so as establish themselves at a level 'above' the students they taught.
I had two (one from the Michigan State Police, the other from Gulfport, MS) that admitted that after mastering the finesse of 'no brake dragging,' they still preferred occasional pressure on the rear brake pedal to smooth out their maneuvers.
I respect Motorman, and his skills are most likely well above most average Motor Officers, such as myself.
But having tried both approaches, I'll still be a 'trail-braker.' But like BikerFish says, do that sparingly with a BMW clutch, or get out your wallet.
Ride safe, ride often and ride ATGATT!
motorman587
New member
hey marty, ears burning a couple of weeks ago. Missed see you in Ceder Key, was asking about you. Hope all is well!!!
motorman587
New member
Yes - basically both stating something similar, just from different perspectives.
When I trained as a Motor Officer, use of rear brake drag was essential to the proficiency of most exercises. The trainers however mentioned that to become an H-D Motor Officer Instructor, they needed to demonstrate the same maneuvers without use of braking, so as establish themselves at a level 'above' the students they taught.
I had two (one from the Michigan State Police, the other from Gulfport, MS) that admitted that after mastering the finesse of 'no brake dragging,' they still preferred occasional pressure on the rear brake pedal to smooth out their maneuvers.
I respect Motorman, and his skills are most likely well above most average Motor Officers, such as myself.
But having tried both approaches, I'll still be a 'trail-braker.' But like BikerFish says, do that sparingly with a BMW clutch, or get out your wallet.
Ride safe, ride often and ride ATGATT!
Well said Sir!
visian
look out!!!
ok, taking the bait...
i feather y R1150GS' clutch a lot when traversing tricky sections off-pavement. At about 78k miles, the bike's rear main seal sort of needed attention and as a preventative I told the shop to replace my friction disk.
it was practically brand new.
so... either people are fanning their clutches while revving the bike too high (no need to rev) or something else is going on, but in my experience with both air and oilheads, the clutch is more than up to the task.
ymmv.
ian
greenwald
New member
ok, taking the bait...
i feather y R1150GS' clutch a lot when traversing tricky sections off-pavement. At about 78k miles, the bike's rear main seal sort of needed attention and as a preventative I told the shop to replace my friction disk.
it was practically brand new.
so... either people are fanning their clutches while revving the bike too high (no need to rev) or something else is going on, but in my experience with both air and oilheads, the clutch is more than up to the task.
ymmv.
ian
I think you're spot on when you mention that you keep your 'rev's' as low as possible when feathering the clutch. It speaks well of how much fine-control you exercise when riding, and the resulting longevity of your dry clutch.
Not all do that.
Last edited:
ANDYVH
New member
Careful here, quoting this comment: "But having tried both approaches, I'll still be a 'trail-braker.' But like BikerFish says, do that sparingly with a BMW clutch, or get out your wallet."
Not to steal the post or create another dialog, but "trail braking" in not dragging the rear brake through a turn. I had a MSF student last year, in a BRC ask me to watch for him "trail braking" during the class. I asked him if he knew what trail braking was, and he thought it was dragging the rear brake through turns. He was a fairly new rider on a CBR600.
Real trail braking is a technique of using both brakes, while leaning into a turn, to in effect cause the bike to "squat" down at both ends, thus shortening the wheelbase/decrease the effective fork rake, and make a bike with a conventional front fork turn in quicker. The idea is that blended braking into the turn apex, along with rolling up the throttle, makes the bike turn quicker with good stability and even chassis attitude front to rear. I mention the conventional fork because the Telelever fork on the Oilheads does not squat significantly like a conventional fork during braking, so the trail braking effect is less significant.
Not to steal the post or create another dialog, but "trail braking" in not dragging the rear brake through a turn. I had a MSF student last year, in a BRC ask me to watch for him "trail braking" during the class. I asked him if he knew what trail braking was, and he thought it was dragging the rear brake through turns. He was a fairly new rider on a CBR600.
Real trail braking is a technique of using both brakes, while leaning into a turn, to in effect cause the bike to "squat" down at both ends, thus shortening the wheelbase/decrease the effective fork rake, and make a bike with a conventional front fork turn in quicker. The idea is that blended braking into the turn apex, along with rolling up the throttle, makes the bike turn quicker with good stability and even chassis attitude front to rear. I mention the conventional fork because the Telelever fork on the Oilheads does not squat significantly like a conventional fork during braking, so the trail braking effect is less significant.
greenwald
New member
As always, something to be learned from Andy. 
OK - I will just refer to it as "draggin' the rear brake for control."
Andy - plans in the works for I and a couple of others to take a Dirt Bike Course this summer at Road America to fulfill Continuing Education Hours for MSF.
I will pay attention to true 'Trail-Braking' at that time.....assuming I survive.
OK - I will just refer to it as "draggin' the rear brake for control."
Andy - plans in the works for I and a couple of others to take a Dirt Bike Course this summer at Road America to fulfill Continuing Education Hours for MSF.
I will pay attention to true 'Trail-Braking' at that time.....assuming I survive.
BMW Triumphant
Ed Kilner #176066
Very Informative
Just want to say thanks for those who contribute to these threads regarding skill development.
Something useful always seems to surface. I need to practice slow speed turns with my new R1200RT, the biggest bike i have owned, and am glad to hear that with keeping revs low (and presumeably reasonably short sessions of practice) the clutch wear will be minimal.
Graceful low speed manoevers sometimes elude me, i must confess. Some of my first U-turns required finding an empty side street with no traffic...
There is a commuter train parking lot nearby that is deserted on Sundays and i was getting good use of it before the winter break. Looking forwards to visiting it next month. A little practice went a long way, but it is not a one-time thing, i have found.
Again, thanks for the discussion.
Just want to say thanks for those who contribute to these threads regarding skill development.
Something useful always seems to surface. I need to practice slow speed turns with my new R1200RT, the biggest bike i have owned, and am glad to hear that with keeping revs low (and presumeably reasonably short sessions of practice) the clutch wear will be minimal.
Graceful low speed manoevers sometimes elude me, i must confess. Some of my first U-turns required finding an empty side street with no traffic...
There is a commuter train parking lot nearby that is deserted on Sundays and i was getting good use of it before the winter break. Looking forwards to visiting it next month. A little practice went a long way, but it is not a one-time thing, i have found.
Again, thanks for the discussion.
kthflieger
New member
Motorman - would you be willing to post the cone pattern for this course? I and a couple local motors would like to set up a practice course locally just for fun! Thanks
motorman587
New member
motorman587
New member
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Trail braking is a motorcycle riding and driving technique where the brakes are used beyond the entrance to a turn and are gradually released up to the point of apex.
In applying this technique, motorcycle riders approach turns applying front brakes to reduce speed. As they enter the turn, they slowly ease off the brakes, gradually decreasing or trailing off the brakes as motorcycle lean increases. This is done for several reasons.
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