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Thread: Harley owners: Born or Made?

  1. #76
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    All references to 1% in regards to motorcycle clubs are about being non-law abiding. Bandy it about here on the forum or whatever but that's what it means. One of my oldest friends got into the hd scene and was a parts manager at a number of dealerships in the Bay Area. He had a really nice road King and one time he showed up with a sticker on it that was a hells angel support/friend of the club kind of thing. He told me he rode with them on a toy ride which eventually entailed blasting over the bay bridge from Oakland to SF, like 100s of riders. They tore ass up the emabarcadero and terrorized fishermans wharf riding on the sidewalks and wrong way on the left side of the road. Total anarchy in such a large group there was no chance Leo's were going to go anywhere near them. He thought that was really cool. I reminded him that there was nothing cool about organized crime and the history of the club in the Bay Area included systemic abuse of women and drug dealing. He took the sticker off.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    I don't know what club you belong to, but I don't have a truck with 1%ers per se, but they have too many rules for me. I have enough problems with authority as it is.

    I have a couple 1% friends. When I got serious about riding again I would run into them at various functions and they kept asking me to join. I finally told them no and it was funny because they got offended and gave me some crap about it. I finally had to tell them that I didn't mean any disrespect to them or their club, but it just wasn't for me. They backed down and all was well again. The way they acted you would have thought I pissed on their colors!

    The rules thing probably would have gotten me too. They do the "prospect" deal where for some time you are hazed. You might have a patch member tell you to go buy him a beer and you have to do it. The hazing can be mild to crazy. I have been to parties and seen how they treat prospects. Some of it depended on the prospect. Some handled it well, some fought it. The more you fought it the worse and longer the hazing. A am pretty bull headed and independent. I doubt I would have made it through the hazing.
    From the only real Fargo, ND!

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by PoorUB View Post
    I have a couple 1% friends. When I got serious about riding again I would run into them at various functions and they kept asking me to join. I finally told them no and it was funny because they got offended and gave me some crap about it. I finally had to tell them that I didn't mean any disrespect to them or their club, but it just wasn't for me. They backed down and all was well again. The way they acted you would have thought I pissed on their colors!

    The rules thing probably would have gotten me too. They do the "prospect" deal where for some time you are hazed. You might have a patch member tell you to go buy him a beer and you have to do it. The hazing can be mild to crazy. I have been to parties and seen how they treat prospects. Some of it depended on the prospect. Some handled it well, some fought it. The more you fought it the worse and longer the hazing. A am pretty bull headed and independent. I doubt I would have made it through the hazing.
    The different branches of the military all have rules, not much difference there. Same principle applies. If we have to ask someone to join, that's someone we wouldn't want anyway. Sort of like a MC club "catch 22". If a prospect "fought it" in my club he would be gone quickly. I don't mean buried in a shallow grave in a remote wooded area of course, just simply ran off. I'm going to the next BMW rally that isn't cross country for me. Most of the BMW riders i have met in my life came across as well educated "interesting" individuals, as i consider myself to be. That ought to be a hoot.

  4. #79
    I think the born or made question is actually quite simple. It becomes a peer group and peer pressure kind of thing. A person buys a bike and might or might not identify with a group of like minded riders. Recently I have read several posts from people saying I have had a BMW for several years and am finally joining the BMW MOA.

    "Joiners" enter a peer group and many, over time, adopt the norms for that group. BMW riders most often adopt an ATGATT attitude. Other peer groups have different norms that joiners adopt. Helmet wear when required but take it off at the state line where not required is one such group norm. So are loud pipes. So are leather vests with patches and engineer boots.

    Dedicated LD (long distance) rally riders for the most part have adopted norms similar to many BMW riders: not inexpensive textile riding gear, quality helmets, motorcycle riding boots, expensive GPSs, and other similar norms, regardless of the brand of bike they are riding.

    Some riders are part of more than one peer group and conform differently depending on which group they are with at that moment.

    In many respects it is no different than jocks and nerds in high school. People find and identify with an affinity group and for better or for worse adopt the norms of that group. Guys who are on both the football team and the debate squad are a rare breed.

    In the end I am reminded of a letter to the editor of a cruiser style magazine. The letter was written by a BMW rider whose main point was that riders are riders and have many things in common. But he added, "You dress like pirates. We dress like armadillos."
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  5. #80
    Registered User Blacque Jacque Shellacque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    I think the born or made question is actually quite simple. It becomes a peer group and peer pressure kind of thing. A person buys a bike and might or might not identify with a group of like minded riders. Recently I have read several posts from people saying I have had a BMW for several years and am finally joining the BMW MOA.

    "Joiners" enter a peer group and many, over time, adopt the norms for that group. BMW riders most often adopt an ATGATT attitude. Other peer groups have different norms that joiners adopt. Helmet wear when required but take it off at the state line where not required is one such group norm. So are loud pipes. So are leather vests with patches and engineer boots.

    Dedicated LD (long distance) rally riders for the most part have adopted norms similar to many BMW riders: not inexpensive textile riding gear, quality helmets, motorcycle riding boots, expensive GPSs, and other similar norms, regardless of the brand of bike they are riding.

    Some riders are part of more than one peer group and conform differently depending on which group they are with at that moment.

    In many respects it is no different than jocks and nerds in high school. People find and identify with an affinity group and for better or for worse adopt the norms of that group. Guys who are on both the football team and the debate squad are a rare breed.

    In the end I am reminded of a letter to the editor of a cruiser style magazine. The letter was written by a BMW rider whose main point was that riders are riders and have many things in common. But he added, "You dress like pirates. We dress like armadillos."

    I think you nailed it. Excellent post.

  6. #81
    SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacque Jacque Shellacque View Post
    I think you nailed it. Excellent post.
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    I think the born or made question is actually quite simple. It becomes a peer group and peer pressure kind of thing. A person buys a bike and might or might not identify with a group of like minded riders. Recently I have read several posts from people saying I have had a BMW for several years and am finally joining the BMW MOA.

    "Joiners" enter a peer group and many, over time, adopt the norms for that group. BMW riders most often adopt an ATGATT attitude. Other peer groups have different norms that joiners adopt. Helmet wear when required but take it off at the state line where not required is one such group norm. So are loud pipes. So are leather vests with patches and engineer boots.

    Dedicated LD (long distance) rally riders for the most part have adopted norms similar to many BMW riders: not inexpensive textile riding gear, quality helmets, motorcycle riding boots, expensive GPSs, and other similar norms, regardless of the brand of bike they are riding.

    Some riders are part of more than one peer group and conform differently depending on which group they are with at that moment.

    In many respects it is no different than jocks and nerds in high school. People find and identify with an affinity group and for better or for worse adopt the norms of that group. Guys who are on both the football team and the debate squad are a rare breed.

    In the end I am reminded of a letter to the editor of a cruiser style magazine. The letter was written by a BMW rider whose main point was that riders are riders and have many things in common. But he added, "You dress like pirates. We dress like armadillos."
    Much truth in the human nature aspect of this analysis, most of us join a group and adopt their behaviors, but it does not address the reality of the consequences of the choices made. Adopting the behaviors of one peer group may mean adopting behaviors that mean greater risks. Riding without a helmet, wearing a t-shirt and jeans, using ape hangers and bar hopping are not just fitting-in choices, they are potentially life altering choices.
    Kevin Huddy
    Silver City, Montana
    MOA# 24,790 Ambassador

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    Much truth in the human nature aspect of this analysis, most of us join a group and adopt their behaviors, but it does not address the reality of the consequences of the choices made. Adopting the behaviors of one peer group may mean adopting behaviors that mean greater risks. Riding without a helmet, wearing a t-shirt and jeans, using ape hangers and bar hopping are not just fitting-in choices, they are potentially life altering choices.
    I agree Kevin, but still, I do really believe that peer pressure and peer group conformity is the operating conundrum.

    Nobody ever guaranteed that the peer group chosen had all the smart answers. But they did have norms to conform to.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  8. #83
    I think it has more to do with the TYPE of bike one chooses to ride rather than the brand.
    Think cruisers, sport bikes, adv bikes, dirt bikes and scooters, for example.
    Each type of bike will fit in a given peer group and rider behavior will often follow.

    Touring Harleys with stock exhaust fit in at most BMW rallies, and GS Giant events may soon include Pan American riders. BMW branded chaps may show up at dealers for R18 riders as well.

    It’s all good. (Except loud exhausts on ANY bike!)
    -Live as fully as you can as long as you can-

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