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Why can't BMW build a true 425lbs mid size motorcycle

vtbob said:
I've been riding motorcycle for a long time and miss the mid size bikes. 500cc, 50 hp or so, 450lbs maybe a bit less. A BMW with true premium suspension, and most of today's bells a whistles.

Am I alone on this or are there others who feel the same way.
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I feel your pain. Although I absolutely ADORE my RT, at age 71 I suspect sometime in the next 10 years I'm going to be forced to go to something smaller and lighter. When that time comes my tentative plan is to get a Suzuki SV-650 (~ 70 HP / 430 lb) and farkle it with adjustable fork cartridges and an upgraded shock absorber.

Good luck with your hunt!
 
Sooner or later SOMEONE is going to build a 750cc shaft drive boxer, a modernized version of an airhead with FI and ABS. I hope it is the Chinese and that they market it under their own brand.

Put a fairing and bags on it and it’s a touring bike.
Put a skid plate and knobbies on it and it’s a (big) dirt bike.
Put a low frame seat and some chrome on it and it’s a cruiser.
Sell it at a Chinese bike price and it will be practical.
 
stooie said:
I feel your pain. Although I absolutely ADORE my RT, at age 71 I suspect sometime in the next 10 years I'm going to be forced to go to something smaller and lighter. When that time comes my tentative plan is to get a Suzuki SV-650 (~ 70 HP / 430 lb) and farkle it with adjustable fork cartridges and an upgraded shock absorber.

Good luck with your hunt!
Click to expand...

Thanks Id have to check the riding position of the SV-650

FYI The Honda CB500x really looks good to me on spec...but I cann't find one in 200 miles to see and sit on Dealer says not sure what the allocation will be till summer
ps 434 lbs measure weight by cycle world full tank
 
vtbob said:
Thanks Id have to check the riding position of the SV-650

FYI The Honda CB500x really looks good to me on spec...but I can't find one in 200 miles to see and sit on.
Click to expand...

Can't find one within 200 miles of Bridport, VT? As idyllic as I expect it is, I'm surprised you can find electric light bulbs and a gas station within 200 miles ... :wave
 
stooie said:
When that time comes my tentative plan is to get a Suzuki SV-650 (~ 70 HP / 430 lb) and farkle it with adjustable fork cartridges and an upgraded shock absorber.
Click to expand...

All it really needs: Front springs for rider weight, cartridge emulators for adjustment and control, and a rear shock. I came from an '06 SV650. Riding position is close to the wethead R1200R. The R12R is a tad taller, and more. (Weight, power, goodness, etc. - just plain more.)
 
vtbob said:
The KTM 690 like most KTM are "Ready to Race" and great bikes and engines when you are pushing them at 70% or better. Most of my riding is less than 50% and KTM (Husquvarna) engines are not really happy at those RPM...so not the bikes for me. I just sold my little KTM.

Thanks again
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My "Ready to Race" 2015 KTM 690 Enduro is just fine with an old fart on top of it - primarily used to explore the area I live in. It loves gravel and dirt roads, even at a slow pace. Oil changes are a little slower due to 2 oil filters and cleaning the oil screens, but certainly tolerable. And the maintenance intervals are longer compared to the KTM 500cc and smaller engines. I get up to 59 MPG. But seat height could be an issue.

The new KTM 890's are parallel twins, about 100 lbs. heavier than the 690/701, but in the mid 400 lb. range. The "S" street model seat height is 32", the "R" Enduro model is 34". Either 890 could work fine as 90/10 street/offroad duty. (The 890 replaced the almost identical 790, but most report that the 890 has more torque on the low end)

On a smaller scale, and as posted here, I have seen some nicely outfitted Honda CB500X's.
 
PGlaves said:
It depends on the model. I forget which model I helped with an oil change but it was a two hour job. I think it might have been a 920.
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I have a 2016 390 Duke. It has two mesh screens and a paper filter but they are easy enough to get to. Interestingly, they use O-rings on all of the fittings so you don't have to buy a kit with a bunch of crush washers. When I first got the bike, I bought a filter and told the parts guy there must be more needed. He finally ordered me a full kit for twenty something bucks. It included replacement drain and screen plugs and screens. I still haven't used them. I don't know about the other KTM's but the parts and accessories for the India made 390 have been dirt cheap and surprisingly good quality for an inexpensive machine. The upgraded "comfort" seat cost $130.

Riding the 390 is like riding the world's fastest bicycle. After years of large bikes, it feels like it weighs about 50 lbs. I can lay it down on the ground and lift it back on its wheels with one hand. You do have to like to shift though, because it revs like a chain saw. Oddly, KTM doesn't have a redline on the tach but some research revealed that the ignition cuts out at 11,000 RPM. They give you two programmable shift lights which I set at 10,000 and 10,500 RPM. From the rider's perspective, it seems like the revving and high RPM would make you conspicuous, but I have heard other riders wringing out their Duke 390s and from a bystander's perspective the noise is totally innocuous and with only one cylinder 10,000 rpm sounds oddly slow revving.
 
I have a KTM 350 EXC-F which is just an awesome ride for forest roads and some single track. While it's "Race Ready", it is somewhat detuned from their true race bikes, which works well for me and my skill level. The handling, weight (about 250 lbs) and power is just perfect for the type of off-road riding we have in Central Oregon. Fortunately, I can ride a couple of miles west of my house and I'm immediately in National Forest...the downside of the 350 EXC is it would definitely beat you up a bit if you had long approaches on pavement to access good riding. Oil changes are no problem, although as mentioned with other KTM bikes it does involve both a filter change and a screen that has to be replaced or cleaned.
 
Anyname said:
I have a 2016 390 Duke. It has two mesh screens and a paper filter but they are easy enough to get to. Interestingly, they use O-rings on all of the fittings so you don't have to buy a kit with a bunch of crush washers. When I first got the bike, I bought a filter and told the parts guy there must be more needed. He finally ordered me a full kit for twenty something bucks. It included replacement drain and screen plugs and screens. I still haven't used them. I don't know about the other KTM's but the parts and accessories for the India made 390 have been dirt cheap and surprisingly good quality for an inexpensive machine. The upgraded "comfort" seat cost $130.

Riding the 390 is like riding the world's fastest bicycle. After years of large bikes, it feels like it weighs about 50 lbs. I can lay it down on the ground and lift it back on its wheels with one hand. You do have to like to shift though, because it revs like a chain saw. Oddly, KTM doesn't have a redline on the tach but some research revealed that the ignition cuts out at 11,000 RPM. They give you two programmable shift lights which I set at 10,000 and 10,500 RPM. From the rider's perspective, it seems like the revving and high RPM would make you conspicuous, but I have heard other riders wringing out their Duke 390s and from a bystander's perspective the noise is totally innocuous and with only one cylinder 10,000 rpm sounds oddly slow revving.
Click to expand...

The 390 loves to rev and the little bike loves the twisties....I agree it is at it's best in the mountains, not looking at the tack, just shifting when you hit the rev limiter....loved it for that. The weight is great! why i bought it....but not so good on dirt roads at 30 or 40mph which is what want.
 
Two bikes I have that could fit your need are the 790 Duke which is a standard riding position bike with over 90hp and weighs about 415# wet. I have KTM's "touring" shield on mine which is fairly small but effective. The biggest issue is the stupid, high angle muffler which impedes mounting most throw ove soft bags. KTM do offer their own set though. The bike has been upgraded to the 890 Duke for 2021 and is the same weight with even a bit more power. But it's riding position is slightly worse in that they raised the pegs and lowered the bars slightly. There are still some 2020 790's out there such as here https://www.ridersvillecycle.com/new-models/2020-ktm-790-duke-27844872b

Another option could be a Moto Guzzi V7 Stone V-twin, shaft drive, 50 hp, 450# wet, tubeless cast wheels, standard seating position with various options for luggage and windshields. 2020 models are available at discount such as this one https://www.xps-usa.com/New-Invento...andard-V7-III-Stone-Accident-Maryland-9400477
 
I have been watching the KTM 890 basic Adventure (cast wheels etc) as the weight is close to what I'm looking for. None are available around here (200 or so miles) to look at sit on. I have two concerns 1 too tall 2nd the "ready to race" engine tune. I would happily sacrifice the HP spec to having 50-70% of torque available at 2500 rpm...ie much more docile.
If this was available ...it could be a potential replacement to my RS.

If they did a torque based tune, loweedr the bike for touring...I would look seriously

Guzi....old history just does not allow me to believe their weight claim...
 
vtbob said:
I have been watching the KTM 890 basic Adventure (cast wheels etc) as the weight is close to what I'm looking for. None are available around here (200 or so miles) to look at sit on. I have two concerns 1 too tall 2nd the "ready to race" engine tune. I would happily sacrifice the HP spec to having 50-70% of torque available at 2500 rpm...ie much more docile.
If this was available ...it could be a potential replacement to my RS.

If they did a torque based tune, loweedr the bike for touring...I would look seriously

Guzi....old history just does not allow me to believe their weight claim...
Click to expand...


I don't know maybe an 890 Adventure with 32.5" seat would be tall for you, but it's probably not much different than an RS is it? The Adventure will be a lot lighter though. My experience is only with the 790 Duke but its engine is anything but high strung, it makes power and torque everywhere and it's geared perfectly with a nice tall 6th. I had it out yesterday and was thinking what a great light weight tourer it would make because it's so light, torquey, and relaxing to ride. From a CW test:

"Analyzing power output recorded on Cycle World's in-house dyno, we can tell you the 790 Duke belts out 95.1 hp at 9,200 rpm and 58.2 pound-feet of torque at 7,900 rpm. Looking closely at the dyno charts reveals a remarkably linear power curve, which continuously builds power from idle until only 300 rpm below its 9,500 redline".

An 890 Adventure is a little heavier than my Duke but that's offset with a little more power and torque, and the Adventure gives you a larger gas tank and larger shield for touring. The local dealer (Morgantown, WV) has an 890 Adventure in stock I need to take a look at it. Riderville located in Berkley Springs has one and they would be a little closer but still 500 miles or so.They are great to deal with though, Harold the owner normally discounts pretty well and doesn't add fees.

https://www.ridersvillecycle.com/search/inventory/availability/In Stock/brand/KTM


Yeah the new V7 with the 850cc motor is a little heavier than the 700cc V7III at 465# wet.
 
PGlaves said:
"Why can't BMW build a true 425lbs mid size motorcycle"?

They did: The 650Xchallenge, Xcountry, and Xmoto.

Xchallenge: 144 kg (317 lb) Xcountry: 147 kg (324 lb) Xmoto: 148 kg (326 lb) (dry)

They sold like stale waffles at a week-long garage sale and were soon discontinued.

See: https://www.ultimatespecs.com/motorcycles-specs/bmw/bmw-g-650-xchallenge-2009

As always, be careful what you wish for.
Click to expand...

Yes BMW made them for a short time. I cannot remember seeing any of them at my small local dealer. I agree with your statement that they sold poorly.
At that time 2010 I was looking for a lighter replacement for my R1100RT (90kmiles) so I bought the F650GS twin was sort of happy with it till I replaced it with the R1200RS (substantially lighter and less bulbous than the RT) nearly the same wight with a LOT more sophistication/features.

I don't think the market is like it was in 2009 or so. I do think there are others like me, and you (you ride 310s I believe) who want a lighter but sophisticated bike

My compromise is keeping the RS and getting a second bike like the Honda cb500x (19in front) for local dirt roads and maybe longer touring if nothing turns up better ...I'm think KTM is the most likely.
 
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