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Why can't BMW build a true 425lbs mid size motorcycle

V

vtbob

wanderer
I've been riding motorcycle for a long time and miss the mid size bikes. 500cc, 50 hp or so, 450lbs maybe a bit less. A BMW with true premium suspension, and most of today's bells a whistles.

The BMS 850cc engine powers several 750 to 900 models but the bikes built around that are as large and nearly(only 20lbs lighter than my R1200RS) as heavy as 1200 bikes. I owned one for 50k miles but I would like a smaller, lighter bike too

Yes I know there is the 310 which is nice and light, and the GS version sits right, but the engine needs to be spinning hard to get a move on.

I've been looking ..Royal Enfield 650 seems to come closest. Their new engines are good but I would like better suspension, etc etc.

Am I alone on this or are there others who feel the same way.
 
The S1000R weighs 440 pounds.
I'm surprised BMW does not make a S or RS version of this bike. I would like that style better than a XR.
It could have small panniers like the K1200/1300S.
Maybe have a 750 triple based on the 1000 engine?
 
vtbob said:
I've been riding motorcycle for a long time and miss the mid size bikes. 500cc, 50 hp or so, 450lbs maybe a bit less. A BMW with true premium suspension, and most of today's bells a whistles.

The BMS 850cc engine powers several 750 to 900 models but the bikes built around that are as large and nearly(only 20lbs lighter than my R1200RS) as heavy as 1200 bikes. I owned one for 50k miles but I would like a smaller, lighter bike too

Yes I know there is the 310 which is nice and light, and the GS version sits right, but the engine needs to be spinning hard to get a move on.

I've been looking ..Royal Enfield 650 seems to come closest. Their new engines are good but I would like better suspension, etc etc.

Am I alone on this or are there others who feel the same way.
Click to expand...

The Honda CB500X is squarely in the target area you are looking for. Lightweight, reliable, on/off-road capable, capable of comfortably cruising at highway speeds, and affordable. I’d pay more than Honda is asking if that bike were available in the roundel and wouldn’t object to seeing the weight bumped up 15-20lbs to add adjustable suspension and options like Bluetooth comms. The closest thing to it that you’ll find in the current BMW lineup is the F750GS, which is about 40lbs heavier but a more capable motorcycle in most respects. And, the F750GS also includes the desired features I mentioned earlier.

Best,
DeVern
 
The KTM 690 R Enduro would be the closest for me to that unicorn you're talking about. At 74 hp and a dry weight of around 320 lbs, it's pretty hard to beat.
 
powwow said:
The KTM 690 R Enduro would be the closest for me to that unicorn you're talking about. At 74 hp and a dry weight of around 320 lbs, it's pretty hard to beat.
Click to expand...

Yep, which is why I just bought one.

I had a Beta Enduro for 3 years and could never deal with it on longer trips. by the 3rd day I was tired of riding it. small seat, very light, couldn't really go fast..the motor could but not the frame. It was around 290 pounds and the balance was way off with a bag behind me. Sold that and bought a 701 Husqvarna. I think that's going to be my off-road touring bike and then I can stop spending thousands a year to keep knobbies on the GSA.

My GSA weights 670 pounds fully fueled without panniers. Going down to sub-400 is going to be pretty amazing.
 
Thanks for the responses.

The old R80ST fits the bill as a 40 year old bike...a true classic. Suspension, even in new form is not up to snuff for today's standard, etc

The Honda CB500X will get a closer look from me.

I should have said I was not looking for a dirt bike. The KTM 690 like most KTM are "Ready to Race" and great bikes and engines when you are pushing them at 70% or better. Most of my riding is less than 50% and KTM (Husquvarna) engines are not really happy at those RPM...so not the bikes for me. I just sold my little KTM.

Thanks again
 
GTRider said:
The Honda CB500X is squarely in the target area you are looking for. Lightweight, reliable, on/off-road capable, capable of comfortably cruising at highway speeds, and affordable. I’d pay more than Honda is asking if that bike were available in the roundel and wouldn’t object to seeing the weight bumped up 15-20lbs to add adjustable suspension and options like Bluetooth comms. The closest thing to it that you’ll find in the current BMW lineup is the F750GS, which is about 40lbs heavier but a more capable motorcycle in most respects. And, the F750GS also includes the desired features I mentioned earlier.

Best,
DeVern
Click to expand...
My trail bike is a 2018 CB500X with a Rally Raid UK upgrade (and obligatory mods and “necessities”). I’ve posted on other threads about the CBX - but I’m a happy camper, so I’m repeating myself. A half litre 70mpg twin with a strong subframe and a Tractive upgraded suspension is a bike that I think all major players should build. Choosing the bike and then upgrading, along with postage rates from Old Blighty, isn’t for everyone. YMMV.

cb500x_quilcene_obstruction_pt.jpg
 
Why can't BMW build a mid-size bike? Its pretty simple really - Because they don't want to.

They build the 310 to gain/attract new riders to the marque and counting on them acquiring the skills to "stay in the game" and buy a bigger bike. BMW has never tried to be all things to all people.
 
ebell said:
My trail bike is a 2018 CB500X with a Rally Raid UK upgrade (and obligatory mods and “necessities”). I’ve posted on other threads about the CBX - but I’m a happy camper, so I’m repeating myself. A half litre 70mpg twin with a strong subframe and a Tractive upgraded suspension is a bike that I think all major players should build. Choosing the bike and then upgrading, along with postage rates from Old Blighty, isn’t for everyone. YMMV.

cb500x_quilcene_obstruction_pt.jpg
Click to expand...

Bike looks great! Nice job :thumb
OM
 
ebell said:
My trail bike is a 2018 CB500X with a Rally Raid UK upgrade (and obligatory mods and “necessities”). I’ve posted on other threads about the CBX - but I’m a happy camper, so I’m repeating myself. A half litre 70mpg twin with a strong subframe and a Tractive upgraded suspension is a bike that I think all major players should build. Choosing the bike and then upgrading, along with postage rates from Old Blighty, isn’t for everyone. YMMV.
Click to expand...

Yes not for every one but looks very well done to me. Could you describe what the Tractive suspension upgrade is, anything else you would recommend.
 
vtbob said:
500cc, 50 hp or so, 450lbs maybe a bit less. ... Yes I know there is the 310 which is nice and light, and the GS version sits right, but the engine needs to be spinning hard to get a move on.
Click to expand...
KTM 390 Adventure has entered the chat.
43hp, 379hp wet. If you can find one.

I looked at the 310GS, and really liked it. But the altitude out here costs you at least 25% of power, more if you're going to the trails. A 310 at 75% was just a bit too underpowered for my taste. At sea level, probably much more attractive.
 
vtbob said:
Yes not for every one but looks very well done to me. Could you describe what the Tractive suspension upgrade is, anything else you would recommend.
Click to expand...

Thanks all for the positive feedback. I did the work alone at the beginning of the pandemic, and while the bike was taken apart, I upgraded the head bearings with some All-Balls. It would be easier with an extra pair of hands. Also, the videos and instructions are a little dated and after working on an ABS bike, I believe it would be easier to work on a non ABS machine. If upgrading, don’t skimp... get the optional remote preload adjuster.

@vtbob, Tractive info
https://tractivesuspension.com/motorbikes/

Rally Raid CB500X landing page:
https://www.rally-raidproducts.co.uk/honda-cb500x-cb500f

Info here:
https://advrider.com/f/threads/rally-raid-products-honda-cb500x.1012021/

and here:
https://www.cb500x.com/index.php?board=22.0

Before and after (2018 model year)
CB500X_2018_Virgin.jpg


Rally_Raid_L2_Twempie_01.jpg
 
On that note....how about seat hight ? Why so tall ? Notice all those woman riding Sportsters. You can deal with heavier than ideal if your feet are firmly planted.
 
bogdan said:
On that note....how about seat hight ? Why so tall ? Notice all those woman riding Sportsters. You can deal with heavier than ideal if your feet are firmly planted.
Click to expand...

You may want to run that question past Jocelin Snow.
 
Having seen what KTM has been able to do to keep vehicle weight down, I think that BMW could benefit from taking a few lessons there.
 
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