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2021 Harley Pan-America 1250

AKsuited said:
I see Harley stock is up quite a bit lately. I think the market sees something good in this new bike, and especially the new engine, and Harley's effort at producing modern bikes for a change.

Harry
Click to expand...

Pretty sure they will be using that motor in their new sportster when that is reenvisioned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
PGlaves said:
I read Kevin Cameron's article. As usual, Kevin is excellent. This is, on paper, an extremely sophisticated motorcycle. It will not appeal to very many KLR riders. It is almost shocking that HD engineers designed a motorcycle with this much technology and apparent sophistication but it is easy to hire a whole crew of bright young engineers for a project like this. Maybe they raided NASA. Which leads to a concern that this level of technological innovation will overwhelm a large number of traditional old-school technicians in the dealerships. HD certainly has its technician training tasks cut out for itself.

I assume that there will be some early "teething" glitches with the technology and programming. BMW, too, has had its share. But I also suspect that this bike will come with shocks that work, brake calipers that don't leak, and sidestands that don't break and fall off.
Click to expand...

Maybe they hired Porsche design again for the engine. they've done this in the past for engine improvements.
 
PGlaves said:
It is almost shocking that HD engineers designed a motorcycle with this much technology and apparent sophistication but it is easy to hire a whole crew of bright young engineers for a project like this. Maybe they raided NASA.
Click to expand...

I kind of disagree. I think they always had more capability, but never used it because of the culture at HD. The new CEO is changing that though. They can engineer anything that's anyone else can, just just didn't have the agency to do it.
 
ponch1 said:
Nope. This was HD. Of course BMW isn't above going outside. Ricardo designed the K1600 engine, no?
Click to expand...

BMW does use a lot of outside technology and design on non - core areas. I'm not so sure on engine design, they have a lot of staff and resource on engine technology to support their many engine designs in auto / Rover side of the house in addition to motor cycles. Keeping all those products current, up to Euro/ American / Asian requirement would keep the critical mass of engineer busy.

I just don't see Harley having the need for that critical mass of engine technology expertise. That is why they have used Porsche design in the past.

ps the VW group/Porsche support, VW, Audi, Lamborgini, Bentley, Viron(sp?) etc and does a lot of out side contracting.

Maybe Harley used Rotax? S&S, ....who knows.

I have a hard time seeing Harley investing in that critical mass of skilled engineering unless they plan continued substantial future new engine design work.
 
r0ckrat said:
OMG! That's hilarious!

Guy rides to H-D on a bike other than H-D, looks over the PA. Sits down to talk financing.
"Wait, this thing uses English tools, not metric? You mean I gotta buy a whole set of tools just for this bike?"
Click to expand...

My Chevy is metric.
 
r0ckrat said:
OMG! That's hilarious!

Guy rides to H-D on a bike other than H-D, looks over the PA. Sits down to talk financing.
"Wait, this thing uses English tools, not metric? You mean I gotta buy a whole set of tools just for this bike?"
Click to expand...


Eh, maybe I missed the punchline. In this age, if someone does any of their own service work, pretty sure they would own both SAE and metric tools.
 
ponch1 said:
I kind of disagree. I think they always had more capability, but never used it because of the culture at HD. The new CEO is changing that though. They can engineer anything that's anyone else can, just just didn't have the agency to do it.
Click to expand...

Maybe.
 
vtbob said:
BMW does use a lot of outside technology and design on non - core areas. I'm not so sure on engine design, they have a lot of staff and resource on engine technology to support their many engine designs in auto / Rover side of the house in addition to motor cycles. Keeping all those products current, up to Euro/ American / Asian requirement would keep the critical mass of engineer busy.

I just don't see Harley having the need for that critical mass of engine technology expertise. That is why they have used Porsche design in the past.

ps the VW group/Porsche support, VW, Audi, Lamborgini, Bentley, Viron(sp?) etc and does a lot of out side contracting.

Maybe Harley used Rotax? S&S, ....who knows.

I have a hard time seeing Harley investing in that critical mass of skilled engineering unless they plan continued substantial future new engine design work.
Click to expand...

Porsche was 20 years ago and yes, Ricardo did design the K1600: https://www.k1600forum.com/threads/...600-engine-for-bmw-heres-their-article.87722/

If they used someone else, I would think it would have come out and if they did, it will. They've had a lot of changes there in the last couple years and especially in the last year, but this has been coming for a few years. I think they have a winner here as long as it does well in tests and has no big gremlins. The fact they can make an engine that has a 9k RPM redline without valve adjustments is pretty cool. Anything that works and simplifies maintenance is a plus in my book.
 
ponch1 said:
I kind of disagree. I think they always had more capability, but never used it because of the culture at HD. The new CEO is changing that though. They can engineer anything that's anyone else can, just just didn't have the agency to do it.
Click to expand...

I agree, the mid 70's nova engine is a prime example. Had they pushed ahead with that design no telling where they would be today.

I'm glad to see this new design. I hope they go bolder and start kicking some import A$$.
 
jandhumphreyme said:
I agree, the mid 70's nova engine is a prime example. Had they pushed ahead with that design no telling where they would be today.

I'm glad to see this new design. I hope they go bolder and start kicking some import A$$.
Click to expand...

Mid 70's Nova? I think you mean the Vega. Had an aluminum straight 4. They didn't know about nikosil yet.
 
I get a little angry when people hate on Harley, they like many American companies, are full of innovative, smart, creative, forward thinking, clever engineers and technicians. That project proves it and would certainly have been a revolution to the industry, who knows where they'd be today if they'd bet the farm.

I believe they missed the boat with the V-Rod engine as well. I think others here have mentioned, but that motor in a capable touring bike frame would have been a tough competitor to the RT or the Goldwing.

I find it funny that they make their marketing tent so small, selling only the one image/lifestyle. Seems to me they could easily expand much as BMW has done. Hopefully this model will pave the way.
 
I think that all bets are that the new 1250 engine will become a mainstay engine in several models. Which will of course easily justify the technician training needed for the adventure bike because that training will apply to the entire new lineup of motorcycles using the new engine type.
 
I'm glad I never went with vintage British, I don't need a 3rd set of tools. I did have an old Austin Mini that took Whitworth but I never had to buy any tools to my memory.
 
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