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Thread: BMW Navigator V BATTERY

  1. #16
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaachap View Post
    The battery just died for no apparent reason and would not power on, they said they have seen this often enough to keep some in stock.
    I don't know if this is true or not, but from what I read on the internet, when the BMW Navigator V/VI is in the cradle and you shut down, the GPS does not do a full shut down.

    Same when you have the unit in your hand. If the unit is ON and you just press the On/Off button for about two seconds, the unit shuts off and the screen goes black. Pressing the On/Off button again for about two seconds (it seems you need to do this step twice) and it powers right up without going though the usual start-up and warning screens.

    To fully turn it OFF, press and hold the On/Off button for about 5 seconds. A Turn off the device? screen will pop up. Press Off. This is in my Navigator V.

    Navigator V Help Topics

    Navigator VI Help Topics

  2. #17
    Registered User patm's Avatar
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    Unplug the battery. I just replugged the battery in my Nav V to update the dealer POIs.
    The Nav battery shows full charge even though it was unplugged since last November.
    I think that even though the Nav is shut off, not in sleep mode, it still uses power.
    Pat

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  3. #18
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    Well you should not have to unplug the battery to avoid battery drain at the rate it does drain.
    I mean all batteries including those that are unplugged self-drain.
    I can shut down my cell phone, my MP3 player, my tablet and it maintains the battery levels for months.

    Anyway, I fully shut down my fully charged Navigator V 21 days ago and the battery today sat at what looks like a 2/3 charge level.

    Someone ought to fire the engineers at Garmin! They probably got them from Funkies 'R Us.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    Someone ought to fire the engineers at Garmin! They probably got them from Funkies 'R Us.
    Well maybe, but the Garmin products have been light-years (exaggeration for effect) ahead of competitors such as Tom Tom, Rand McNally, Xgody, and other little known brands found in obscure truck stops. I have found the Garmin units we have owned to be very good (3, 3+, 5, Street Pilot, Colormap, 276C, 2610, 2720, Zumo 660, and a few Nuvi's). I have also found Garmin's software to be some sort of Disney Land Mickey Mouse joke. I finally made peace with Mapsource, but have not with Basecamp or Garmin Express. I have had mixed results with firmware updates.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Well maybe, but the Garmin products have been light-years (exaggeration for effect) ahead of competitors such as Tom Tom, Rand McNally, Xgody, and other little known brands found in obscure truck stops.
    I realize that with 4 Garmin GPSes to my name plus some other Garmin products.

    But just because I got 50% on an exam and everybody else got less than 30%, it does not make me smart. There are a few ways to design circuits.

  6. #21
    Registered User patm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    Well you should not have to unplug the battery to avoid battery drain at the rate it does drain.
    I mean all batteries including those that are unplugged self-drain.
    I can shut down my cell phone, my MP3 player, my tablet and it maintains the battery levels for months.

    Anyway, I fully shut down my fully charged Navigator V 21 days ago and the battery today sat at what looks like a 2/3 charge level.

    Someone ought to fire the engineers at Garmin! They probably got them from Funkies 'R Us.
    I understand but when you think that when the Nav V originally came out in 2013, it was based on state of the art technology from 2010 or earlier.
    There aren't many cell phones from that era still running. How many 10 YO designs still run today?

    The reasons they're still around are they're rugged and reliable. Could they be improved? Sure.
    Pat

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by patm View Post
    There aren't many cell phones from that era still running. How many 10 YO designs still run today?
    Actually both of them from 2005 and 1014 still do. Remember the Nokia 6100? Nice and compact and I used it for 9 years. Then the Samsung ATIV-S for 5.5 years and it only got replaced with another Samsung not that the old one was broken. I just replaced my Sony XBR Vega CRT television that was 19 years old. I now have a flat-screen. Just because it is "new" doesn't mean I will march out like a lemming and buy it.

    And you know what I did with the money I saved? I bought a second 911, this one a heavily optioned 991 GTS and all on a tech's salary. There must be some Scottish and Dutch in me.

    I've always said, I am a marketing exec's worst nightmare.

  8. #23
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    ... I don't know if this is true or not, but from what I read on the internet when the BMW Navigator V/VI is in the cradle and you shut down, the GPS does not do a full shut down...
    That is correct Alex, the unit merely goes into "sleep" when in the BMW cradle/mount, and one turns off the ignition. Turning off the ignition cuts power to the mount and the GPS with display

    The only way to turn off the GPS is to remove it from the mount and physically hold down the power button until presented with the screen prompt to "Turn off the device" and selecting that option.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    ... Anyway, I fully shut down my fully charged Navigator V 21 days ago and the battery today sat at what looks like a 2/3 charge level ...
    That is in line with my experience as well Alex.

    I have definitely observed either an unintended leak (drain) within the design/construction of the unit that hauls the battery charge down quicker than an unplugged battery by a significant degree. It seems present in most of my Garmins, but to a noticeably greater degree with the Nav-VI.
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS
    Current: 2019 R1250RT/'06 Ducati ST3s/'06 Vespa GTS 250ie/'91 R100GS/'86 R80RT/'83 R100RS/'76 R90/6/'75 R90S/'73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT/'04 R1150RT/'81 Honda GL1100/'77 Suzuki GS750/'73 Norton 850 Commando

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanColes View Post
    That is in line with my experience as well Alex.
    I am keeping the unit within easy reach instead of stored in the basement till the riding season starts.

    I charged it last night. It is too much of a PITA to take the battery out because I have 3M PPF on the tops and bottoms to prevent chaffing when I have the Wunderlich sun screen on the GPS. I look after my gear as I do my vehicles.

    Oh, one thing I noticed is the back of the GPS gets warm. Now that is not a good sign for a new battery. Maybe the battery is being overcharged and that is a no-no for a Li-Ion battery.

  10. #25
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    ... I have the Wunderlich sun screen on the GPS...
    I use the same one. Works well except if the sun is behind me where the shade can't really help.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    ... Oh, one thing I noticed is the back of the GPS gets warm. Now that is not a good sign for a new battery. Maybe the battery is being overcharged and that is a no-no for a Li-Ion battery.
    Hadn't noticed (or checked) that. You're quite right about Li-Ion batteries not liking being overcharged, interesting possibility.
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS
    Current: 2019 R1250RT/'06 Ducati ST3s/'06 Vespa GTS 250ie/'91 R100GS/'86 R80RT/'83 R100RS/'76 R90/6/'75 R90S/'73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT/'04 R1150RT/'81 Honda GL1100/'77 Suzuki GS750/'73 Norton 850 Commando

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanColes View Post
    Hadn't noticed (or checked) that. You're quite right about Li-Ion batteries not liking being overcharged, interesting possibility.
    If I have the time in the near future, I can open up the back of the unit, connect some thin wire-wrap wires to it and monitor the charge with my MadgeTech data unit. I would not expect the charge voltage to go higher than 8.4V (4.2V per cell). I am assuming they are in series since the battery lists 7.4V (3.7V OCV). Now that has me wondering how a USB of 5V charges the battery unless they have voltage doublers in the circuit of the battery or the unit.

    Life would he a heck of a lot easier if they used a single cell (3.7V battery) as they do on other Garmin units. Hell, even my Garmin 60 Cx unit takes two AA batteries and it runs for 14 to 16 hours. It is simple charging a single cell battery and not have to worry about cell balancing in multi-cell batteries.

  12. #27
    Registered User Guenther's Avatar
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    Li-nnn batteries are charged per cell. This is needed to control the temperature of each cell while charging with 3 wires out of each cell.

    Some batteries have a small built-in temperature controller and you have only 2 wires coming out.

    /Guenther
    2017 F700GS - I wish she had a drive shaft

  13. #28
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    If I have the time in the near future, I can open up the back of the unit, connect some thin wire-wrap wires to it and monitor the charge with my MadgeTech data unit. I would not expect the charge voltage to go higher than 8.4V (4.2V per cell). I am assuming they are in series since the battery lists 7.4V (3.7V OCV). Now that has me wondering how a USB of 5V charges the battery unless they have voltage doublers in the circuit of the battery or the unit.

    Life would he a heck of a lot easier if they used a single cell (3.7V battery) as they do on other Garmin units. Hell, even my Garmin 60 Cx unit takes two AA batteries and it runs for 14 to 16 hours. It is simple charging a single cell battery and not have to worry about cell balancing in multi-cell batteries.
    Alex, this opens up another, and even bigger can of worms.

    You may be aware of the significant issues users have been experiencing with the Garmin/BMW Nav-VI screen ghosting, acting like it has gone whacky, etc., and how these are being replaced by Garmin at an alarming rate. I am on my 3rd unit!

    After doing some testing and sending them back my 1st unit, I spoke with Garmin about two years ago and suggested to them that it appear to potentially be an issue with the power connection on the GPS. I tested my GPS against other Nav-VIs that were not acting up and it didn't matter which bike they were mounted to, the issue stayed with the GPS so it was not a GPS mount issue, however, I never had the issue while the GPS was being handheld and so wondered if it might be something like the old "cold solder joint" things.

    Later, I noticed that it never acted up when it was being charged from a computer either and now with the battery issue potentially being an overcharging issue, I'm wondering if the ghosting/erratic behaviour could also be from overcharging.
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS
    Current: 2019 R1250RT/'06 Ducati ST3s/'06 Vespa GTS 250ie/'91 R100GS/'86 R80RT/'83 R100RS/'76 R90/6/'75 R90S/'73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT/'04 R1150RT/'81 Honda GL1100/'77 Suzuki GS750/'73 Norton 850 Commando

  14. #29
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guenther View Post
    Li-nnn batteries are charged per cell.
    Hopefully, because single cell charging is the best and really only way to get the maximum life out of a battery, provided you follow charging specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guenther View Post
    Some batteries have a small built-in temperature controller and you have only 2 wires coming out.

    /Guenther
    Which is why I like chargers like the Xantrex TrueCharge II where you can connect a temperature lead to the charger and connect the sensor to the negative battery post. The charge algorithm (voltages) are controlled that way.

    The battery in the BMW Navigator V has 4 wires: a red, a black and two identical blue wires.

    Sure enough, a few days ago, I measured each cell of the old battery. One cell was at 3.21V and the other cell was at roughly 0.06V.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanColes View Post
    You may be aware of the significant issues users have been experiencing with the Garmin/BMW Nav-VI screen ghosting, acting like it has gone whacky, etc., and how these are being replaced by Garmin at an alarming rate. I am on my 3rd unit!
    Sorry, I haven't really heard much about it since I do not follow it on forums. With 4 BMW GSes in my stable, I can joke and say it is a BMW issue. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanColes View Post
    I spoke with Garmin about two years ago and suggested to them that it appear to potentially be an issue with the power connection on the GPS.
    By that you mean "internally" at the circuit board level.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanColes View Post
    Later, I noticed that it never acted up when it was being charged from a computer either and now with the battery issue potentially being an overcharging issue, I'm wondering if the ghosting/erratic behaviour could also be from overcharging.
    I am only calling it "overcharging" because having worked with other batteries (FLA, AGM, GEL, NiCad) in labs, batteries do not overheat unless you are pumping them up with huge currents. That or you have high internal resistance.

    I used my Samsung cell phone charger (1A), plugged in the Garmin cable and the back of my Garmin was quite warm, far more that I would expect. The battery itself would be much warmer. And this with a NEW Garmin battery.

    I have no issues with the two Garmin 60 Cx and my nüvi 40 LM GPSes that I have had for ages.

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