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/5 clutch assembly - recommendations for parts.

r60celo5

New member
Good evening gents.

The patient is a 73 R60/5 LWB with aprox 38K miles on it. I got it a year ago as "parts or restore" in one piece and after some work i got it running. Clutch adjustment was a pain but finally got to to work OK. Also installed the "Ez -Clutch" and i am happy with it. I rode it during the summer maybe 200 miles or so, local routes, no highway and no high speeds.


Yesterday i pulled out the clutch assembly preparing to replace the rear seal, oil pump cover and oring. Here is the condition of the parts.


Compression ring - shows groves on the mating surface with the clutch disk and has formed lips on the outer edges.

Clutch disk - 4.7 mm at the edge, service limit is 4.5mm and new should be 5.75mm - will be replaced.

Pressure plate - shows groves on the mating surface with the clutch disk and has formed lips on the outer edges. At the engine side there are small indents from the diaphragm spring fingers.

Diaphragm spring - average height is about 17.7mm, fingers are within 0.3mm of each other, warping at outside perimeter is is less the 0.8mm. There is some wear on the spring fingers.

The grove and lips on the pressure plate and compression ring do no look so bad. I have driven cars with brake rotors in worst shape, if the two are comparable.

What do you guys think of the condition of these parts.

I would not be happy to waste parts and money replacing what might have some life left. However i would hate to take it apart again next winter or any of the following next winters.

i am shopping online for OME parts. Are any aftermarket parts that offer any advantage over the 1970s technology and materials?

Thank you.
 

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Too bad you only have 38K on the parts. I replaced the clutch on my /7 at around 100K. Probably could have gone more...most of my miles are at speed, not much around town.

In my case, I replaced everything. You're going to replace the disk and it will wear in rapidly to the other worn parts, thus it's life will be reduced up front. As far as where to get parts, I bought from BMW. I suppose there are other sources...note you will put the parts together and likely not need to see them for many many miles/years.

You're on the east coast...maybe check with some of the independent mechanics out there...Tom Cutter, Anton Largiader...see what they can do for you.
 
I would replace all clutch parts. From your pictures it appears everything thing is worn out. If the mileage is correct, probably original clutch. The problem with mixing new clutch parts with old is the new components have to “seat in”. That will make your new parts wear quicker, and added clutch adjustments until everything wears in. OEM or Boxer2valve for clutch parts.
 
So far I have used Max BMW for parts. I believe those to be OEM?

Most of my riding will be local and short rides so the new clutch will see quite a bit of use.

New clutch assembly it is!

Today I put it on tdc, blocked the crank shaft not to let it move forward, loosened up and removed the flywheel blots. I tried to wiggle it some but it did not budge. I will mark it and try to remove it with some home made tools using the long bolts and nuts I used to release the clutch spring.

Any tips how to remove the flywheel?

Is it normal for all fly wheel bolts threads to be wet with oil, clutch face of the flywheel is dry. I already changed the gear box input seal last time I had it apart. Is that why bmw added an oring on the later years?
 
Milage

I hate to be the jerk here but from what you have shown and are writing about I would say your bike may have gone around the horn one time. I would not expect to see the amount of damage to the clutch you have in less than 40K miles unless it was grossly out of adjustment or, the previous owner didn't know how to use it. I don't mean to be insulting but previous owners don't always tell the truth when selling. Lots of people get hit with what I am now calling the previous owner virus.

If you have the bolts out the flywheel should just pull off, there may be a slight resistance, nothing you should need special tools for.

So, now you have the fly wheel off, I would suggest you change the main seal as well as the ring gasket in the oil pump housing. I am reading between the lines but I kind of think you are doing that but I just add it as a suggestion.

There should be NO oil in the area of the flywheel or engine case this would be the dry side as you say the clutch face. Keeping engine oil out and in the engine is the purpose of the main seal. If it is good, anything on the transmission side of the clutch should be dry.

If you are installing the main seal I would suggest purchasing the tool or tools needed to assure it is installed properly and is at the proper depth in the housing. Several companies on line sell the tool, none come to my mind right at the moment. An internet search will turn them up and I am sure if it doesn't some one in the forum will share a link.

Good luck, Oh yeas, Brook Reams has a web site with loads of videos on how to do many repairs on airheads. You can find him on the net or perhaps as a link here in the MOA forum. I will bet Kurt the monitor will be able to hook you up. St.
 
I bought it from a gentleman in western Massachusetts who owned it for 4 years and had put roughly 300 miles on it. It was listed as "parts or repair" and it was not running. Along with his title he also gave a copy of the previous owner title and the mileage checks out. He also had saved the receipts of work done on it, like new starter, points, carb work, oil changes and other stuff i do not recall.

BUT its a 48 year old machine, i bet it has had its share of abuse. I know i had the clutch adjustment wrong till i figured how to get it right.

With help from here i got it running, tore it down, put it back together and rode it during the summer. I found the problems to be in the wiring and some bad connections. This winter decided to have at it again, replacing the rear main seal, oil pump cover ect.

This is one off for me so i am trying to refrain from buying special tools, so i am trying to come up with similar tools on the cheap. Here is what i came up with: a 6$ L bracket from Home Depot cut in half and resting on he engine case, the clutch release tool bolts with the nuts all the way up threaded into the flywheel, holding up the bolt with one wrench and working the nut down the bolt with another wrench. It worked out for me. Also should mention that i did block the crankshaft it using boxer2valve method.

With the flywheel off its obvious that the seal had failed and oil was leaking pass it. The seal seems to be just a hair proud of the engine case.

Flywheel teeth that mate with the starter are worn at a 45 degree angle about 2mm from the inside edge. Is it still usable? I will follow Brook Reams and file the worn corners.

Regarding the NEW seal location: i read that the new type seal is driven as deep as it goes as it sits on the engine case. Snowbum's suggestion is to install it flash with outside edge of the engine case. Are both of these methods the same?

My plan is to freeze the seal overnight, then tap it in place as evenly as possible without the need for the special tool. The engine case is proud of the crankshaft, as long as i do not tap the crankshaft i should be ok.

Anyone done that? As Brook Reams suggests, need to keep an eye on the outside thrust washer that it stays on its pins. Here i am thinking to use some engine assembly lube that is thick and sticky to hold it in place.



I hate to be the jerk here but from what you have shown and are writing about I would say your bike may have gone around the horn one time. I would not expect to see the amount of damage to the clutch you have in less than 40K miles unless it was grossly out of adjustment or, the previous owner didn't know how to use it. I don't mean to be insulting but previous owners don't always tell the truth when selling. Lots of people get hit with what I am now calling the previous owner virus.

If you have the bolts out the flywheel should just pull off, there may be a slight resistance, nothing you should need special tools for.

So, now you have the fly wheel off, I would suggest you change the main seal as well as the ring gasket in the oil pump housing. I am reading between the lines but I kind of think you are doing that but I just add it as a suggestion.

There should be NO oil in the area of the flywheel or engine case this would be the dry side as you say the clutch face. Keeping engine oil out and in the engine is the purpose of the main seal. If it is good, anything on the transmission side of the clutch should be dry.

If you are installing the main seal I would suggest purchasing the tool or tools needed to assure it is installed properly and is at the proper depth in the housing. Several companies on line sell the tool, none come to my mind right at the moment. An internet search will turn them up and I am sure if it doesn't some one in the forum will share a link.

Good luck, Oh yeas, Brook Reams has a web site with loads of videos on how to do many repairs on airheads. You can find him on the net or perhaps as a link here in the MOA forum. I will bet Kurt the monitor will be able to hook you up. St.
 

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I havent read the whole thread; but please tell me you put something in front of the crankshaft, up in the points and advance mechanism area, to keep the crankshaft from moving forward just enough to cause real problems internally??????? Some even suggest folding a rag several times and putting it in front of the crank then put the timing cover back on......

What you are doing looks really good.............
 
here is how i blocked the crankshaft. saw it in one of the boxer2valve videos.
 

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[snip ...]

Flywheel teeth that mate with the starter are worn at a 45 degree angle about 2mm from the inside edge. Is it still usable? I will follow Brook Reams and file the worn corners.

Regarding the NEW seal location: i read that the new type seal is driven as deep as it goes as it sits on the engine case. Snowbum's suggestion is to install it flash with outside edge of the engine case. Are both of these methods the same?

[Snip]


The 45 degree angle on the flywheel teeth are machined that way for clearance. They are not that way due to wear.

Best.
Brook Reams.
 
For a clutch like that I would buy a new cover (it's an updated design) and then send it along with the old friction disk and pressure plate to Southland Clutch for a rebuild. You get back a matched, freshly flattened set of parts. The only issue is that there may be an interference problem with the new cover and the 4-speed transmission where the bolt heads can hit, but you can resolve that (it needed) by grinding the bolt heads down slightly. I forget offhand which bike the interference problem affects but it's definitely pre-1974. Could be pre-/5 though. It's not a Southland issue; it is just because of the newer cover design with the bolt heads that stick out a bit.
 
Purchased a clutch kit plus rear seal, oil pump cover and o-ring along with all associated bolts form boxer2valves.

Ordered Friday morning and were shipped Friday afternoon. Should have the parts Sunday. Very pleased with their service.

So what's the verdict with the installation of the rest seal. Flush with engine case or all the way in? They might the same thing. I don't have the rear seal to measure how thick it is and how it fits in the case.

Has anyone installed it without the special tool?

Thanks for your input.
 
So far so good. New seal, new oil pump cover and O- ring are installed. Also the flywheel is back on it rotates freely.

IMG_20210207_170946.jpg

The clutch parts old vs new.
IMG_20210208_120830.jpg

Clutch disk - Old vs new.
IMG_20210208_120914.jpg

Clutch disk thickness - Old vs new.
IMG_20210208_121128.jpg

Spring diaphragm - Old vs New
IMG_20210208_121428.jpg
 
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