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U-Joint repair was worth it

D

dennypink

DennyPink
2007 R1200RT, 87,385 miles.
Needed a winter project and decided to do some swing arm/drive shaft preventative maintenance. Prior to disassembly, measured free play at the rear wheel in 1st gear. 2.5 inches (63.5mm). Drive shaft sent to Machine Service, Inc. in Green Bay, Wis. and returned one week later. $260.00 plus $23.86 for shipping to Colo. In 1st gear free play now measures 1.75 inches (44.45mm) Moral of my story, even if U-Joints feel good, somewhere around 80 to 90K, I would suggest having them rebuilt. The drive shaft will probably out last me.
DP
 
Last edited:
That play is supposed to be 50mm or less right? Sounds like it was heading out. Good idea to get to it before failure. That price sure beats a replacement shaft (even Ted Porter's).
 
GSAddict said:
Yes of course, but where on the wheel? Circumference increases with diameter.:bolt
Click to expand...

Hello GSAddict - Good question. Took my measurement right side of the rim, where the tire and rim meet. Rotated the wheel back to full stop, held my caliper at a specific mark, then rotated the wheel forward to full stop, making sure the caliper did not move.
DP
 
This is very timely information. I also have a 2007 RT with 107,000 miles. Measured at the outside edge of the rim my bike has 45 mm of play. I rode a ST1300 for 180,000 miles and kept a record of play just like this. There was no Honda service limit or recommendation but I thought checking it every tire change over time would give me some warning of excessive wear or an impending problem. That bike always had about 45 mm of lash (play).

I've had this 2007 RT just over a year and 18,000 miles. I plan on keeping the bike on the road for a few years at least so maybe another 75-80,000 miles. Looking to the future I just purchased a used low(er) mileage driveshaft and am evaluating options of driveshaft replacement with this used one or rebuild it as a spare,

I have no known issues with the drive train at present. Dropping the final drive for oil changes allows direct examination of the rear u-joint only and I've seen posts and such that detail front u-joint failure. Perhaps I will send my used DS to WI for rebuild and plan on installing it in the next few months. Thanks very much for this info.
 
This check would be a good addition to regular service intervals.
Simple and quick to do.
I'm adding it to my list and will log the data.
Thank you
 
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I don’t want to drag this thread off track..... but on u-joints, any play is bad from my experience.
Maybe these are not the needle bearing- cross-joint, Cardan joint or u-joints I’m familiar with :dunno
From class 8 trucks to farm equipment, any excess movement usually led to seal breakdown, water intrusion, rust and the cross beating the needle bearings out of the cups.
OM
 
Omega Man said:
I don’t want to drag this thread off track..... but on u-joints, any play is bad from my experience.
Maybe these are not the needle bearing- cross-joint, Cardan joint or u-joints I’m familiar with :dunno
From class 8 trucks to farm equipment, any excess movement usually led to seal breakdown, water intrusion, rust and the cross beating the needle bearings out of the cups.
OM
Click to expand...


The play measured (taking into account that the U joints are in perfect condition) is the slot in the transmission gear dogs.
Also included in this figure is the backlash of the FD crown gear and the splines (very minimal)
Normal and expected.
 

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Omega Man said:
I don’t want to drag this thread off track..... but on u-joints, any play is bad from my experience.
Maybe these are not the needle bearing- cross-joint, Cardan joint or u-joints I’m familiar with :dunno
From class 8 trucks to farm equipment, any excess movement usually led to seal breakdown, water intrusion, rust and the cross beating the needle bearings out of the cups.
OM
Click to expand...
Yes, you are correct in regards to the u-joint bearings. It would have been better of me to describe the measurement as lash or drive line play as measured at the rear wheel. It involves lash in all the associated parts from transmission output to bevel drive and I still think it is worthwhile to keep tabs on. Checking it regularly keeps me tuned to the amount of lash and the sound and feel of all the parts rotated by hand. Besides the rear joint inspection for a catch, rough spot, or notch in the bearings with the RT I also open the rear caliper to get the pads away from the brake disk and observe how the wheel turns with the engine running with cold transmission in neutral, looking for any 'catch' or disruption of smooth rotation of the rear wheel. I believe(hope!) any u-joint bearing problem will show up sometime before failure with regular checks like these.
 
GSAddict said:
The play measured (taking into account that the U joints are in perfect condition) is the slot in the transmission gear dogs.
Also included in this figure is the backlash of the FD crown gear and the splines (very minimal)
Normal and expected.
Click to expand...

dduelin said:
Yes, you are correct in regards to the u-joint bearings. It would have been better of me to describe the measurement as lash or drive line play as measured at the rear wheel. It involves lash in all the associated parts from transmission output to bevel drive and I still think it is worthwhile to keep tabs on. Checking it regularly keeps me tuned to the amount of lash and the sound and feel of all the parts rotated by hand. Besides the rear joint inspection for a catch, rough spot, or notch in the bearings with the RT I also open the rear caliper to get the pads away from the brake disk and observe how the wheel turns with the engine running with cold transmission in neutral, looking for any 'catch' or disruption of smooth rotation of the rear wheel. I believe(hope!) any u-joint bearing problem will show up sometime before failure with regular checks like these.
Click to expand...

All righty then. This makes more sense to me although.......I find u-joints have a finite life, especially if they are not able to be greased. I had a Jeep a while back, found a bad u-joint.....I did all seven as they were the same age and not able to be greased.
I find it hard to find a u-joint “just” going bad.
:thumb
OM
 
The measured play in the rotation of the rear wheel includes:

- the mesh of the final drive ring and pinion gear teeth
- the fit of the driveshaft splines
- the driveshaft U joint(s)
- the fit of the dogs in the transmission (which can vary depending on gear selected)
- the mesh of the selected gears in the transmission
- the fit of the transmission input shaft and clutch hub

So as a gross measure of overall play/wear in the system a significant change signals there is an issue somewhere. It does not specifically point to Universal Joint wear, but it could be that.
 
Omega Man said:
All righty then. This makes more sense to me although.......I find u-joints have a finite life, especially if they are not able to be greased. I had a Jeep a while back, found a bad u-joint.....I did all seven as they were the same age and not able to be greased.
I find it hard to find a u-joint “just” going bad.
:thumb
OM
Click to expand...

A fact from the past.
R100GS's were prone to fwd U joint failures due to the steep angle of the driveshaft to transmission.
This was partly due to the components used were from other models and the GS was sprung a lot higher.
 
2008 R12GSA driveline impending failure

A couple of years ago I noticed a tight spot in rotating the rear wheel while on the centerstand at 64K. Dismayed that all the local BMW shop could come up with is replace it with a new driveshaft. Driveline Service in Green Bay rebuilt it with a pretty quick turn around. According to DS this shaft should be pulled and re-greased at 24K. Works like a charm and now it's serviceable.
 
PGlaves said:
The measured play in the rotation of the rear wheel includes:

- the mesh of the final drive ring and pinion gear teeth
- the fit of the driveshaft splines
- the driveshaft U joint(s)
- the fit of the dogs in the transmission (which can vary depending on gear selected)
- the mesh of the selected gears in the transmission
- the fit of the transmission input shaft and clutch hub

So as a gross measure of overall play/wear in the system a significant change signals there is an issue somewhere. It does not specifically point to Universal Joint wear, but it could be that.
Click to expand...

Once the baseline is established.
The drive shaft would the first suspect in my books.
And the easiest to check.
 
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