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Then And Now

I can understand that if you live in a dry area. I'm too cheap to water a lawn :)
I'm a little weird and like taking care of the lawn. There's something about the nice soft Bluegrass we have in the Midwest.

To each their own, but I'm with Dave on this. Where I live we've always had plenty of water, but that is likely changing as the entire western US dries out. It is December 10th and we just had our first snow in Boise, Idaho - just a dusting with grass blades sticking through. This winter has been very dry, so far.
 
I can understand that if you live in a dry area. I'm too cheap to water a lawn :)
I'm a little weird and like taking care of the lawn. There's something about the nice soft Bluegrass we have in the Midwest.

We had a house in Wayzata that was on an old farm pasture. There wasn't a tree around and all the houses just sat on an acre patch of grass. Every Saturday it sounded like the place was suffering through an air raid with all the mowers running. I didn't see the point when I was 11 and still don't. After that, we moved to San Diego and we had a small patch of grass out front, maybe 15 x 20 and that was it. When I visited last year, they'd removed the lawns entirely and had a big patch of artificial grass out back where the apricot trees used to be for their kids to play on.

Later, when we were living in Mass., I had an acre and several thousand square feet of grass to mow at our house. But it always looked like hell because I had riding to do on the weekends. :ha

It doesn't resonate with me at all. We've got flowers, flowering trees and flowering shrubs, so our yard tends to be pretty active with birds, hummingbirds and bees flitting around. That works really well for me. I like the activity and the variations in foliage and color that native plantings can bring to our yard.

We're heading down to San Diego to retire and we'll do the same down there, though we'll probably have large beds of succulents and low water use shrubs that are native to that climate. My water bill should be just about zero for irrigation.

Also - with our drought, you can't irrigate your yard in our county right now, especially lawns. If you capture your gray water (and the county will help you get set up with that), go right ahead, but right now, no irrigation for anything while we're in the drought. If you have a green lawn, expect to get heckled. If you're washing your car, expect to get heckled. And that's before the bill comes, which recently added "escalators" - use over this threshold and get this much penalty added to your bill. The limits are reasonable and reflect what a family can expect to use if they're even halfway efficient, so it's really about restricting irrigation and stuff like car washing. FWIW, some of the mobile detailers are now advertising that they can detail your car using almost no water to wash it. People adapt. Procedures change.

I installed a Flume water usage monitoring device and right now, we're using right about 80 or 90 gallons of water a day. When I'd run my irrigation, it was about 400 gallons on top of what we're using now every other day.
 
A very good friend of mine is a recently retired water system manager for a town near me. He has all kinds of certifications and managed all the compliance testing that town's water system has to do. He says their tap water is as clean as anything in a bottle, and if that bottle is "spring water", then the town water is actually cleaner. I've also read several tests of bottled water which concluded the same thing. I won't say this is true of every town (Flint, MI) but where I live is. You can always get a copy of the required water analysis from your local water system.

Among things that make me nervous-

802ADBCB-E98C-4B44-88A7-3E8697A2A90A.jpg802ADBCB-E98C-4B44-88A7-3E8697A2A90A.jpg

Seems like “we” could do better?

Now the legacy chemicals (PFAS) are kicking in. Reverse osmosis used in so much of the bottled (PWS) isn’t enough. Carbon filtration stocks are probably a good investment.
OM

PFAS THREAD- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthrea...on%92t-have-enough-to-be-concerned-about-PFAS
 
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Our yard is 32 acres of mostly creosote bushes with mesquite, prickly pear, and ocotillo for accent. :) And we also get about 10 inches of rain. And our water supply is rain water catchment: filtered and UV disinfected. No mineral, no chemicals. No plastic bottles.
 
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You don't like lawns??

I like mine but I'm not sure if it's what many would call a "lawn"?

I live in an arid climate. Wasting water on a lawn isn't something I can get behind in the least. I think that just about anywhere in the west, lawns don't really have a place, especially in arid climates. But, sure enough, people move from back east and the first thing they do in a place that gets 10 inches of rain a year is plant a lawn and a maple tree..... We've landscaped with native plants which require little water.....

Of course not. IMO ones yard should consist of whatever naturally grows, in my case a mixture of lush clover and other weeds such as chickweed, dandelion's, nut sedge, rye, interspersed with a little fescue and bluegrass. Yards in the arid SW should consist of rocks, sand and dirt, along with whatever indigenous stuff grows, and of course a cactus!



When the dental issues start to rise, maybe people will remember that you get fluoride from your water department and the water will be at least as clean, if not cleaner than anything coming out of a bottle.


The water company for the area where I grew up and lived, until recently, quietly quit adding fluoride to the water over 10 years ago. My hunch was their concern for the health impact from long term ingestion of the stuff but when I asked they said it was a "monetary decision".




I can understand that if you live in a dry area. I'm too cheap to water a lawn :)
I'm a little weird and like taking care of the lawn. There's something about the nice soft Bluegrass we have in the Midwest.

IMO yards shouldn't be watered and life's too short to waste time bagging grass (weeds in my case).


My water comes from a well I had put in when I built in 2002. It was tested then as being perfectly fine and I have not tested it since. When I visit my friend in town and first drink city water from her tap I can really smell and taste the chlorine but after a couple glasses I'm used to it and don't notice.
 
I live in an arid climate. Wasting water on a lawn isn't something I can get behind in the least. I think that just about anywhere in the west, lawns don't really have a place, especially in arid climates. But, sure enough, people move from back east and the first thing they do in a place that gets 10 inches of rain a year is plant a lawn and a maple tree.

We've landscaped with native plants which require little water. When we moved here, we had a patch of lawn in the backyard. We yanked it all out and replaced it with natives. We're two adults, so we don't need a play space for kids, but as we stage this house to sell it, we'll target it to families with kids and I'll install a big patch of artificial turf. Right now, our water department will pay you $3/sq. ft. to remove your lawn.

My uncle in Michigan did the same thing 45 years ago in his subdivision and his yard looked beautiful. Native specimen trees, native shrubs and flowers; it was spectacular and felt like a walk in the Michigan woods. But the HOA wanted everyone to have a stupid lawn for no other reason than aesthetics, so they forced him to yank it all out and spend Saturday sitting on a mower instead of doing something else.

They're an artificial construct that wastes water and time, IMHO.

And besides, would you rather ride a mower or your motorcycle?

Too lazy to cut& snip a few paragraphs on phone and not wanting to piss off all my golfing buds... However, the Golf Industry in certain locales and a few agricultural endeavors such as almonds make you question why is that a good thing? Sure, some courses use treated effluent but they are not the majority. Flying and even riding through these areas just make me shake my head. I will duck for cover now! :hide
 
As I mentioned I don't water my yard and have to wonder why anyone would pay for water to sprinkle their grass, and unless water's plentiful in their area probably shouldn't regardless. Here it is plentiful, usually too plentiful, so never a problem.
 
Too lazy to cut& snip a few paragraphs on phone and not wanting to piss off all my golfing buds... However, the Golf Industry in certain locales and a few agricultural endeavors such as almonds make you question why is that a good thing? Sure, some courses use treated effluent but they are not the majority. Flying and even riding through these areas just make me shake my head. I will duck for cover now! :hide

Before we all go all out casting dispersions on the choices of others (lawns, golf courses, etc.) we should stop and remember that we are all on this list because it is our passion - and we believe our right - to burn fossil fuel, releasing hydrocarbons, just for the fun of it. In many countries motorcycles and scooters are necessary transportation tools, but very, very few people in North America must ride on two wheels out of necessity - we do it because it's fun and our passion. There are many cars which give better fuel economy. And, parked next to many motorcycles are large SUV's or (in my area) Ford F-150 pickups which never see a larger load than potting soil. What is that old saw about people living in glass houses?? :gerg
 
Our yard is 32 acres of mostly creosote bushes with mesquite, prickly pear, and ocotillo for accent. :) And we also get about 10 inches of rain. And our water supply is rain water catchment: filtered and UV disinfected. No mineral, no chemicals. No plastic bottles.

We are a little less arid here but have been rain harvesting,as you know, for almost fifteen years and provides all home needs. Have a well that has sputtered a few times do to low levels in aquifer. I do throw some annual ryegrass out in November on the small interior yard around house and cabin. The rest of six acres is on its own. and only water the ryegrass to germinate if a LaNina year with less rain is occurring, typically it is self caring. Just provides some green to help with SADD on my part and for guests ( and deer :banghead )who enjoy the yard. In summer the yard is on its own with native whatever that does get mowed on occasion. For fire safety and to keep some trails and drives open, I will mow that every few months.
 
See, the golfers already after me :laugh.
And we do also live in a glass house and rocks do break it on occasion

We are a fossil fuel generation and have done a few things to recognize my impact and some change...the fourteen motorcycles say different however :dunno
 
See, the golfers already after me :laugh.
And we do also live in a glass house and rocks do break it on occasion

We are a fossil fuel generation and have done a few things to recognize my impact and some change...the fourteen motorcycles say different however :dunno

I am proud to say that I have never wielded a golf club in anger or ventured outside of the bar in a club house. I'm with Mark Twain who said, "Golf is a good walk spoiled." :brow
 
It doesn't resonate with me at all. We've got flowers, flowering trees and flowering shrubs, so our yard tends to be pretty active with birds, hummingbirds and bees flitting around. That works really well for me. I like the activity and the variations in foliage and color that native plantings can bring to our yard.

.

I should have used the word yard. In town I think of yard and lawn as the same thing.
 
Too lazy to cut& snip a few paragraphs on phone and not wanting to piss off all my golfing buds... However, the Golf Industry in certain locales and a few agricultural endeavors such as almonds make you question why is that a good thing? Sure, some courses use treated effluent but they are not the majority. Flying and even riding through these areas just make me shake my head. I will duck for cover now! :hide

A half gallon of almond "milk" takes 16,000 gallons of water to produce. I wish people would stop buying it.
 
Before we all go all out casting dispersions on the choices of others (lawns, golf courses, etc.) we should stop and remember that we are all on this list because it is our passion - and we believe our right - to burn fossil fuel, releasing hydrocarbons, just for the fun of it. In many countries motorcycles and scooters are necessary transportation tools, but very, very few people in North America must ride on two wheels out of necessity - we do it because it's fun and our passion. There are many cars which give better fuel economy. And, parked next to many motorcycles are large SUV's or (in my area) Ford F-150 pickups which never see a larger load than potting soil. What is that old saw about people living in glass houses?? :gerg

We're talking about water and landscaping, no?
 
We're talking about water and landscaping, no?

I thought those were just examples of what some think is "squandering" of resources. No??

About your Almond Milk comment, I did a fact check: "Almond milk requires 384 liters of water per liter, and cow's milk requires 1016 liters of water to produce, which is 2.5x more water." There are 3.78541 liters per gallon. So take the 384 liters of water per liter of almond milk X 3.78541 liters per gallon = 1,453.6 gallons of water used per gallon of almond milk, *BUT* that figure includes all the water to grow the almonds as well as processing into almond milk. Cow's milk takes about 3,634 gallons of water to produce a gallon of milk (2.5x almond milk). So, almond milk is much preferred if one only looks at water consumption to produce. Source: https://findanyanswer.com/how-many-gallons-of-water-does-it-take-to-make-almond-milk


Here's a look at the water requirements to produce other common foods to put almonds and milk into context: https://www.truthordrought.com/almond-milk-myths. You have to fact check everything and check both sides of the facts. Summary graph:
 

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Then- Parent says to child….”what are you doing washing one pair of jeans in the washer- set on full load?”

Now- Parent wonders why the water bill is so high?

OM
 
Bored there Greg? :laugh
Sometimes it’s the where things are grown/produced, not the relationships to others. We all benefit from irrigated lands, actually dependent on it. Doesn’t make current practices just the way it is an answer.
And sure the Almond Lobby making your PowerPoint there has a stake in pointing out the look over there as they pump a lot of limited groundwater in a very challenged area.
Along the Gulf Coast it’s flooding rice fields which are shrinking in numbers... replaced by subdivisions with pretty green lawns.

Back then- miles of rice fields

Now - urban sprawl on top of those fields ... Katy, TX area comes to mind.
 
I thought those were just examples of what some think is "squandering" of resources. No??

About your Almond Milk comment, I did a fact check: "Almond milk requires 384 liters of water per liter, and cow's milk requires 1016 liters of water to produce, which is 2.5x more water." There are 3.78541 liters per gallon. So take the 384 liters of water per liter of almond milk X 3.78541 liters per gallon = 1,453.6 gallons of water used per gallon of almond milk, *BUT* that figure includes all the water to grow the almonds as well as processing into almond milk. Cow's milk takes about 3,634 gallons of water to produce a gallon of milk (2.5x almond milk). So, almond milk is much preferred if one only looks at water consumption to produce. Source: https://findanyanswer.com/how-many-gallons-of-water-does-it-take-to-make-almond-milk


Here's a look at the water requirements to produce other common foods to put almonds and milk into context: https://www.truthordrought.com/almond-milk-myths. You have to fact check everything and check both sides of the facts. Summary graph:

It is interesting how little water is actually destroyed and how difficult that process actually is.

The Almond trees send water back into the atmosphere via transpiration.

Chickens, pigs, cows and humans send water back into the atmosphere, water systems and soil by urination, perspiration and respiration.

Life uses water. It also returns it to the closed system of this planet.

So what is truly squandered?
 
Bored there Greg? :laugh
Sometimes it’s the where things are grown/produced, not the relationships to others. We all benefit from irrigated lands, actually dependent on it. Doesn’t make current practices just the way it is an answer.
And sure the Almond Lobby making your PowerPoint there has a stake in pointing out the look over there as they pump a lot of limited groundwater in a very challenged area.
Along the Gulf Coast it’s flooding rice fields which are shrinking in numbers... replaced by subdivisions with pretty green lawns.

Back then- miles of rice fields

Now - urban sprawl on top of those fields ... Katy, TX area comes to mind.

The point is that I have been fact checking all kinds statements by both strangers and friends and I'm finding most of them are saying things which are just not true. This country is divisive enough that we don't need any more people stating falsehoods as facts, and it's especially unacceptable when it only takes minutes to fact check yourself. Earlier today on the Washington Post web site someone made the statement that NO Republicans voted for the "Infrastructure Plan", when in fact 32 did between the House and the Senate. That took me less than 30 seconds to verify and the facts completely voided his angry and inaccurate post. If we don't keep ourselves and others honest, we are doomed. :gerg
 
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