Advice on motorcycle title

Hi guys, I just joined the community recently and getting ready to go back riding again. I will be picking up a 1982 R65 next week. I stopped by to check the bike today to get the VIN number on the frame, along with the correct mileage so I can get the insurance ready for next week. The seller, who is a straight-up gentleman, told me of a potential problem. He is also a collector and a motorcycle mechanic. The bike was originally from Ohio, therefore, it has an original Ohio title. The bike was never registered in Texas. He reviewed the title and checked the VIN on the frame. Everything matched except the last number. This could have been an error when the title was prepared in Ohio.

The bike is in good shape and ready to go. I want it and I'm going through with the transaction. I just want to ask if anybody had this happen to them before. Are there any legal ramifications when I go to register the bike and pay the tax?

As long as you are happy and nothing can be considered “shenanigans”, just run the paper work through. Fixing that will be troublesome, possibly very time consuming. You know it’s a “Keebler” and if you sell it, or every time paper work is mentioned, there will be some ‘splaining to be done.
If you have vehicle inspection fanatics that check serial numbers, well....you know.
OM

This sounds like a bike that has not been recently registered in the state where you are buying it. Chances of a VIN inspection being required, especially when presenting an out-of-state title, are pretty high and by then your money and the seller are gone. You might try asking the seller to rectify the problem by declaring a lost title and requesting a new one, which again involves inspections and time, and that may or may not be possible with a bike that hasn’t been previously registered in your state. Or, he might be able to get a corrected title from the originating state.

Not having a matching VIN on the title will cause YOU to have issues when you decide some day to sell the bike, and could also be a problem with insurance in case of accident or theft.

If this were me and I was committed to the purchase I’d make sure to get a state-approved bill of sale then present it as a vehicle purchased on a BOS with no title. Might require an affidavit from the seller and a delay while the VIN is run through an interstate search, which should come up blank if the error was in the original sale by a dealer. I ran into a similar case while helping a friend’s widow dispose of his BMW collection. She was able to get a title after an LEO inspection and filling out the appropriate forms—but widows chasing “missing” titles might get a bit more of a break at the DMV. YMMV.

Good Luck,
DeVern

For me, have registered umpteen hundred different vehicles over all these years. Cars, trucks, trailers, RV's, horse trailers, motorcycles, and even the odd road going chipper shredder.

NEVER HAVE HAD AN INSPECTION OF THE NUMBERS..........Think about it. Have YOU??? So just do it. If by chance you get a "tag Nazi", scratch your head and say, "Gawlee, what do I do now bout dis haear prowblum?".............Truly, what are they gonna do? Especially now with all of the Covid problems....Are they really gonna go out there in the cold winter to crawl on the ground and check stuff?.....God bless.......Dennis
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It's state specific, in Ca. you most likely would need a DMV employee to verify the numbers on the frame and engine, I had to last year on an AZ. bike I bought. They had to confirm that the paper work and bike matched, Texas, dunno, but before you fork over any money, just take the numbers, license plate number and if the seller will allow, a pic of the title and registration, to your DMV and tell them what the problem is. Then see what they (your state DMV) say, they are in charge and what they say goes, at least here they do. I've learned that if there is anything that deviates from normal, the DMV here are flummoxed and just refuse to deal with it and there doesn't seem to be much you can do about it. I always check first if I have any questions.

llewellync said:

Hi guys, I just joined the community recently and getting ready to go back riding again. I will be picking up a 1982 R65 next week. I stopped by to check the bike today to get the VIN number on the frame, along with the correct mileage so I can get the insurance ready for next week. The seller, who is a straight-up gentleman, told me of a potential problem. He is also a collector and a motorcycle mechanic. The bike was originally from Ohio, therefore, it has an original Ohio title. The bike was never registered in Texas. He reviewed the title and checked the VIN on the frame. Everything matched except the last number. This could have been an error when the title was prepared in Ohio.

The bike is in good shape and ready to go. I want it and I'm going through with the transaction. I just want to ask if anybody had this happen to them before. Are there any legal ramifications when I go to register the bike and pay the tax?

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So let me see if I understand this correctly.
You are buying a bike from a gentleman in Texas who purchased this bike some time ago in Ohio, the bike has an Ohio Title but the last digit on the title is wrong.

Whose name is the bike titled under in Ohio? The seller in Ohio or the gentleman you are buying it from in Texas?

If the original seller in Ohio's name is on the title you need to get a Texas title from the seller in Texas.
He was supposed to get a Texas title within 30 days of his purchase.

https://www.txdmv.gov/motorists/buying-or-selling-a-vehicle

When selling a vehicle in Texas

Provide the buyer with the following:

A properly signed title, including the date of sale and odometer reading
Signed Application for Texas Title and/or Registration (Form 130-U) with the sales price clearly shown.
A seller should keep detailed written records of any transaction, including contact information for the buyer, the date of sale and information on the vehicle, including the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).

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Buying From an Individual
If buying from an individual, have the seller accompany you to the county tax office to avoid unwanted surprises. Before submitting the title application, a tax office representative can tell you if the title being signed over to you is correct and if it has any salvage or legal issues. You can also use Title Check to see if the title of the vehicle you are thinking about buying has any issues impacting its value.

In addition to the title, ask the seller to provide you with:

The signed vehicle title
Application for Texas Title and/or Registration (Form 130-U)
Any other supporting documents, such as release of lien or power of attorney

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It looks to me like the Seller needs to execute one of these forms to obtain the requisite Texas Title.
Bonded Title Application or Tax Collector Hearing Statement of Fact



You don't say where you intend to register/title this motorcycle but having skipped the Texas Title will cause you more trouble than it is worth.
The bottom line is that you have a real chance of owning a motorcycle you cannot ride, Title, register, or even legally sell.

Having spent 6 years as a Motorcycle Dealer I wish I could tell you I never had to sort through one of these nightmares but I can't say that. Good Luck,
and, Caveat Emptor!

Unless there is something really special about this R65, I would pass on this deal.

Buy the bike!

Just go get the bike and run the title as is without saying anything to anyone.. After you have it at home you can get the title changed at your leisure. Good luck and have fun. Don't worry!

I would walk away. I always check the title against the VIN on the frame -- and the engine number back in the day when they were different. It's not the only R65 out there.

No clear title no sale

So, we have people here writing all kinds of advice some good, some not.

I will say in my case, no clear and proper title for a bike requiring one, no sale!

You don't need the hassles which may happen to YOU. And it is YOU who will have to deal with the problems which may happen. Oh yeah, they may be minor and only take a few minutes too correct, but DMV nonsense in many states is well known and they at the DMV are NOT on your side. Nor are the insurance companies as someone else listed. They will be happy to take your money, but don't expect much help if something goes wrong.

YOU will be the one holding the bag and keys for a bike that you may not be able to register or insure with out possibly spending a lot of time and money on to correct the problem.

Sorry, the fellow you are buying from is in Texas? And the title is from Ohio? I would let him sort out getting the numbers changes and the Texas title properly done, it is HIS laziness or lack of wit in transferring the title from Ohio to Texas at a causing the problem he is happy to pass on to you. Oh, is the Ohio title in his name, a good point brought out by another forum writer. If not, you may be doubly screwed.

As for the people writing in the forum regarding go ahead and by, sort it out, it won't be or is not all that bad, I've done the same thing myself and it was not a big deal, I say great for you! Put on your coat and ride down to Texas and help a person out if things go up in smoke. I am honestly happy your situation worked out for the best. Some people live in states where things are not so bad, or they are lucky.

I have never been so lucky and after many dealings with my states DMV, I know when to run away from a "deal" no matter how good. After all, this is not a once in a lifetime deal for a highly valuable item, It is for an R65, not the best or most popular BMW airhead. St.

More title-specific information from Texas: https://www.txdmv.gov/motorists/buying-or-selling-a-vehicle/bought-a-vehicle-with-no-title

Have to say NO SALE. It's not your responsibility to fix somebody else's careless screwup, especially when its fix involves various agencies.

Other side of the coin from Dennis' experience - I've lived in a couple of states and had many different bikes. When I took a used bike over to the local DMV, an inspector ALWAYS took a look at both the frame and engine numbers (engine #s sometimes are not included on the title but can be added with the new registration). Sometimes they even took rubbings of the numbers. (One inspector was a gal in a dress - she didn't want to get down on her knee and get dirty, so I did it for her while she watched!)

About 35 years ago, I bought a used Camaro... Took it the DMV, and they told me the previous owner still owed the original dealer $76 on it! I paid that to save me the hassle of confronting the seller and just get it done with.

State Specific Law

DennisDarrow said:

For me, have registered umpteen hundred different vehicles over all these years. Cars, trucks, trailers, RV's, horse trailers, motorcycles, and even the odd road going chipper shredder.

NEVER HAVE HAD AN INSPECTION OF THE NUMBERS..........Think about it. Have YOU??? So just do it. If by chance you get a "tag Nazi", scratch your head and say, "Gawlee, what do I do now bout dis haear prowblum?".............Truly, what are they gonna do? Especially now with all of the Covid problems....Are they really gonna go out there in the cold winter to crawl on the ground and check stuff?.....God bless.......Dennis
"

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I live in Kentucky and 100 PERCENT of vehicles titled out of state MUST have the VIN visually verified by a Sheriff, signed and notarized before our DMV will register it or issue a title. So, as mentioned above, DMV laws are state specific.

For the OP, the onus is on the seller, since he shoulda transferred the Ohio title into his name when he bought it. If he registers it now, he may also have to pay back taxes for all those years. For now, it's his problem, but if you pay him, it becomes your problem, possibly including back taxes.

I say NO SALE, walk away.

Texas requires an inspection first, for out of state vehicles. This is where the vin is verified and all your problems begin.
Do not buy this bike without a valid, numbers matching title! It is the seller's responsibility to provide this. You will also have to have the seller's signature on the application for a new Texas title which you turn in at your county tax office. It has to match the name on the title.

If Texas requires a VIN inspection to register and title out of state motorcycles, just might be the reason the present owner did not take care of the title issue up to this point.
Dealing with DMV to fix this problem will be a nightmare, especially during the current Covid Pandemic.
Go find another R65, there are plenty to go around.

Technically, the cycle still belongs to the gentleman in Ohio. Until the person in Texas has a Texas title in his name that he can sign over to you, I would pass on it unless you can make a ridiculously cheap deal.

Even

MWIECK said:

Technically, the cycle still belongs to the gentleman in Ohio. Until the person in Texas has a Texas title in his name that he can sign over to you, I would pass on it unless you can make a ridiculously cheap deal.

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You may buy the bike, put time and money into it to make it yours then find out it is stolen. No matter how great the price, I walk away from deals where the paperwork is suspect.

If the owner has a title in hand, let him do the work to get it properly transferred so you can buy it and not worry.

One thing about the airhead community is many owners are getting up in years and giving up riding. If a good bike is not up for sale now, there will be one soon. Any bike you buy, look over very well for Previous owner disease as well as previous owner paperwork. If you do those two things, you will end up with a great deal. St.

Can anyone else but me imagine buying this bike, getting it licensed with the numbers being off, going for a ride somewhere and getting pulled over, and the popo asking to see the registration and being critical to make sure the number match on the papers and frame? Numbers don't match, it gets towed as stolen never to be seen again in most parts of the country. Heck, it could happen on the ride home from the seller.

I wouldn't buy the motorcycle.

Pay back taxes?

jhall said:

I live in Kentucky and 100 PERCENT of vehicles titled out of state MUST have the VIN visually verified by a Sheriff, signed and notarized before our DMV will register it or issue a title. So, as mentioned above, DMV laws are state specific.

For the OP, the onus is on the seller, since he shoulda transferred the Ohio title into his name when he bought it. If he registers it now, he may also have to pay back taxes for all those years. For now, it's his problem, but if you pay him, it becomes your problem, possibly including back taxes.

I say NO SALE, walk away.

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Pay back taxes? Are you saying you have an annual tax on motorcycles in Kentucky?

daz said:

Pay back taxes? Are you saying you have an annual tax on motorcycles in Kentucky?

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I haven't lived in Kansas for 15 years, but back when I did they in effect did have an annual tax, called the registration fee. But suppose you were refurbishing your bike, or it was damaged so you don't register it for a year or two. When you then went to register it the fees for the skipped years were due.

If you went and changed the title to inoperable or whatever term they use then the fees for the intervening years were not due, but there would be two title fees. During the years that Governor Brownback tried and failed to stimulate the state's economy using previously descredited supply-side economics with a humongous biggly tax cut for the wealthy, Kansas really needed people's money in the form of fees, for sure.