### Warranty Costs for 8 Months ###

Motor32 · Dec 23, 2020

Hey Guys,

After eight months I totaled up how much BMW has covered in parts only (not any labor costs) for warranty claims for my 2020 R1250RT so far. They will also have to replace the front calipers again at a cost of at least $1,500 when that is finalized.

Steve

$ 1,573 Calipers

$ 1,573 Calipers

$ 1,573 Calipers

$ 1,150 Front Rim

$ 310 Audio Buttons

$ 1,931 Audio Control Unit
______________________

$ 8,110 Total

oldcamper · Dec 23, 2020

Those are consumer retail costs, but BMW themselves almost certainly purchase the parts from their suppliers for a mere fraction of that. Whether it’s for a car, truck, or motorcycle, a wheel is pretty much a wheel, a caliper a caliper, and a radio a radio. The more you buy the cheaper it gets, and lots of stuff competes with China pricing these days. You can get a nice aftermarket cast car wheel for $150 retail, calipers for $50, and $150 will buy a decent radio. It’s unlikely BMW pays any more for these things wholesale and in quantity.

Good that you dodged an out of warranty expense, but it probably didn’t cost BMW that much to honor it.

Motor32 · Dec 23, 2020

OldCamper said:
Those are consumer retail costs, but BMW themselves almost certainly purchase the parts from their suppliers for a mere fraction of that. Whether it’s for a car, truck, or motorcycle, a wheel is pretty much a wheel, a caliper a caliper, and a radio a radio. The more you buy the cheaper it gets, and lots of stuff competes with China pricing these days. You can get a nice aftermarket cast car wheel for $150 retail, calipers for $50, and $150 will buy a decent radio. It’s unlikely BMW pays any more for these things wholesale and in quantity.

Good that you dodged an out of warranty expense, but it probably didn’t cost BMW that much to honor it.

That's true that it didn't cost them that much but these are OME parts cost I saw listed. Also worth mentioning the time I've spent at the dealership dealing with all these problems (over ten times) has been a pain in the _ss for sure.

Steve

motodan · Dec 23, 2020

Guess it matters little what BMW pays. Potential cost to consumer with regard to poor quality parts certainly does. Imagine consumer's time lost and overall hassle costs BMW the most...given that kind of experience does not embolden future sales.

Omega Man · Dec 23, 2020

Motodan said:
Guess it matters little what BMW pays. Potential cost to consumer with regard to poor quality parts certainly does. Imagine consumer's time lost and overall hassle costs BMW the most...given that kind of experience does not embolden future sales.

I can't remember who said it- "Consumers have short memories".
OM

dfisher1 · Dec 24, 2020

Motor32 said:
Hey Guys,

After eight months I totaled up how much BMW has covered in parts only (not any labor costs) for warranty claims for my 2020 R1250RT so far. They will also have to replace the front calipers again at a cost of at least $1,500 when that is finalized.

Steve

$ 1,573 Calipers

$ 1,573 Calipers

$ 1,573 Calipers

$ 1,150 Front Rim

$ 310 Audio Buttons

$ 1,931 Audio Control Unit
______________________

$ 8,110 Total

I would be eliminating the bike and the aggravation...Life is to short.... Buy another model or another model year..

rich · Dec 24, 2020

dfisher1 said:
I would be eliminating the bike and the aggravation...Life is to short.... Buy another model or another model year..

I'm 240 miles from a dealer, if that were my bike and my aggravation, I'd be eliminating the brand. I hope you are much closer and your tolerance for aggravation is higher than mine.

Best of luck to you getting your bike trouble free. You deserve a break. And brakes.

motodan · Dec 24, 2020

Omega Man said:
I can't remember who said it- "Consumers have short memories".
OM

You're certainly correct. As the BMW Rep told me during the antenna ring debacle...it'll take a while, but people will forget about this.

I still wonder, if these "incidents" continue to increase in number, within a decreasing time frame (antenna rings, struts, fuel strips, fuel delivery systems, transmissions, cams, brakes)...will the consumer eventually start remembering?

oldcamper · Dec 24, 2020

Motodan said:
You're certainly correct. As the BMW Rep told me during the antenna ring debacle...it'll take a while, but people will forget about this.

I still wonder, if these "incidents" continue to increase in number, within a decreasing time frame (antenna rings, struts, fuel strips, fuel delivery systems, transmissions, cams, brakes...will the consumer eventually start remembering?

BMW positions itself as a “premium” brand, but “premium” does not necessarily equal “better” or “reliable”, it just means more expensive and maybe somewhat exclusive as a result.
A Rolex does not keep better time than a Casio, and a Jaguar is likely to spend more time in the shop than a Camry, but given the choice, most people would chose the more expensive “premium” brand. Same goes for motorcycles. If you want reliable, buy a (insert reliable brand here).

rangerreece · Dec 24, 2020

OldCamper said:
BMW positions itself as a “premium” brand, but “premium” does not necessarily equal “better” or “reliable”, it just means more expensive and maybe somewhat exclusive as a result.
A Rolex does not keep better time than a Casio, and a Jaguar is likely to spend more time in the shop than a Camry, but given the choice, most people would chose the more expensive “premium” brand. Same goes for motorcycles. If you want reliable, buy a (insert reliable brand here).

Because it’s relevant to the conversation: Back in the 1990’s I was the communications officer for C troop 2/17 Cav 101st Airborne Division. I had a Casio watch (G Shock). We used SINCARS radio technology to communicate over FM frequency-hop. We had to have a TOD (Time of Day) in order to speak, 5 seconds off; no commo. I had the NOAC phone number memorized. Problem is, two weeks into a field problem, I did no have access to a phone and my Casio drifted one second forward every 24 hours. 5 days into a field problem all tactical operations within the entire division would shutdown. In the 90’s the proliferation of GPS devices that display time had not occurred yet.

I learned to find the senior pilots who could afford a Rolex or Brietling and synchronize their watches with NOAC prior to the field problem so I could have accurate time throughout the field problem. Rolex would gain about one second every month; huge quality difference when accuracy counts. Eventually, I bought a Brietling. On leave from combat when I became a CW4.

Moral of the story. When quality counts, you get what you pay for. When precision counts money talks. This is why I ride BMW’s.

rangerreece · Dec 24, 2020

Motodan said:
You're certainly correct. As the BMW Rep told me during the antenna ring debacle...it'll take a while, but people will forget about this.

I still wonder, if these "incidents" continue to increase in number, within a decreasing time frame (antenna rings, struts, fuel strips, fuel delivery systems, transmissions, cams, brakes...will the consumer eventually start remembering?

My ‘16 RT is flawless. Despite all my efforts to nit pick, I can’t find a thing wrong with it. I did add the heavier handlebar weights and front fender extender, Clearwater lights, front and back, so, I suppose those could be engineering deficiencies, but at 65,000 miles, smooth as butter, all the power I can use, beautiful to look at. The “incidents” mentioned have been engineered out. This consumer took notice that efforts were made to fix the flaws.

oldcamper · Dec 24, 2020

rangerreece said:
Because it’s relevant to the conversation: (snip)
Moral of the story. When quality counts, you get what you pay for. When precision counts money talks. This is why I ride BMW’s.

I just looked and could not readily find hard data, but Rolex appears to claim accuracy of about +-2 seconds per day, and a $27 Casio +-20 seconds per month, so they seem pretty close these days. Breitling must be some kind of super watch as they claim even higher accuracy, probably the best on the internet.

I too ride BMW but also other brands. The boxer engine and shaft drive make engineering sense, BMW luggage usually works well and the bikes fit me, but i have learned over the many years not to expect Japanese-level quality from the company. They are still nice bikes though.

rangerreece · Dec 24, 2020

OldCamper,
Regarding the accuracy or inaccuracy of watches in the 1990’s my recollection is strictly based on careful observations at that time, I find advertising claims and reality differ at times. These days I wear an Apple Watch, accurate GPS time, all the time, and a few other features, like notifying my wife and dialing 911 when I’m unconscious on the side of the road.

oldcamper · Dec 24, 2020

rangerreece said:
OldCamper,
Regarding the accuracy or inaccuracy of watches in the 1990’s my recollection is strictly based on careful observations at that time, I find advertising claims and reality differ at times. These days I wear an Apple Watch, accurate GPS time, all the time, and a few other features, like notifying my wife and dialing 911 when I’m unconscious on the side of the road.

RangerReece,

I sincerely hope your watch never needs to make use of the 911 feature.

Peace and Merry Christmas!

-J

rangerreece · Dec 24, 2020

OldCamper said:
RangerReece,

I sincerely hope your watch never needs to make use of the 911 feature.

Peace and Merry Christmas!

-J

And a very peaceful and merry Christmas to you and yours sir.

wbrownell9 · Dec 25, 2020

Yes the OP certainly has a bike that BMW lost money on. The company still makes money, though, because the rest of us with troublefree bikes have that warranty work priced into our bikes.

I remember a statistics course I took way back when, one of my takeaways is that manufacturers figure what warranty expense they're willing to price into the product, compare it to MTBF and cost of repair, then total it all up and set that as the warranty period. So for those who get exercised about their warranty running out just before a expensive failure occurred - well, that's not coincidence.

Rick del Monte · Dec 26, 2020

I've only had my GS for a little over a month, and after reading all these posts I started becoming completely paranoid. Every time I heard a ticking noise I would think: there go my cams! And of course the brake caliper issues is truly a fiasco. But I spent a day at the BMW Riding Academy beating the crap out of a GS, dropping it at least ten times. I asked the lead instructor what problems he saw with the GS's. He looked at me funny and said: problems? He said they have been amazingly trouble free.

Normally they trade them out every year, but this set is on its second year because of COVID. This has to be the equivalent of 3 or 4 years. I'll keep checking the brakes and the cams, but I am going to forget about the noises, take comfort in the warranty, and just enjoy this great bike.

rickdm

motormike · Dec 29, 2020

Omega Man said:
I can't remember who said it- "Consumers have short memories".
OM

I tend to think it's just the opposite. At least for those who have gotten burned, they have very long memories. I have a friend that owned a Chrysler product many years ago. It was so problematic that to this day he swears he will never own another Chrysler product. I know several long-ago Buell owners that said they'd never touch another one (when they were still in business). I've looked long and hard at the Ram pickups...they are beautiful and win all the reviews. But then I read the actual owners reviews and cringe at the lack of reliability and problems people have with them. So I stay with my Toyota Tundra. Instead of "consumers have short memories" I'd say it's more like "once burned, twice shy."

junkjohn · Dec 30, 2020

If you only buy based on complaints you would never buy a BMW. I traded in a 2005 Dodge Power Wagon with 93,000 miles that I used to tow a 24' Car Mate trailer for a 2017 Ram Power Wagon (No longer Dodge). Also have a 2005 Dodge Rumble Bee, this only has 30,000 miles and the only problem was a recall for Takata air bags from Japan. I was a bit skeptical when Fiat took over Dodge, but knock on wood, this one has been an awesome truck that gets lots of looks. My wife drove a 2005 Dodge Dakota with the v8 Hemi, and if it didn't start turning to dust from rot she would still be driving it. And it seems like Toyota had to change a lot of frames a little while back. Good luck with your choices because it is all a crap shoot. And there is a lot of Crap out there.
Rant over, coffee is ready.

Omega Man · Dec 30, 2020

junkjohn said:
{snip} Good luck with your choices because it is all a crap shoot.[snip}

I think that about sums it up. It seems that there is fewer and fewer things that are "perfect" right from the get-go. Realizing that, it's how the company/dealer takes care of the problem (knowing some people take a problem personal and make unreasonable restitution demands) that matters to me. I have bought a lot of things that have had problems. These problems mean that I would never buy these brands "brand new" again. There would be considerations to purchase these brands "used" but would be done being very wary.
As for this brake issue, it's not like BMW isn't trying. It's not like BMW thinks this is going to be good for the "brand". I doubt BMW thought putting brakes that have a problem on their bikes was going to help anything.
Like all manufactures, BMW has this problem and will work through it.
OM

### Warranty Costs for 8 Months ###

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