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No spark

R

RTandGS

New member
Hello Oilhead Hive Mind,
I did a search but I think I'm doing something wrong because when i search "no spark" i get posts from every forum and I don't see No Spark in any of the collected threads.

That aside, I hope I can get a check list /work flow for discovering the no spark issue.

2002 R1150Rt 17k miles. Was running 8 months ago, quit. Wouldn't start again, they sold it to me. The bike is just spotless.

Sidestand up, clutch pulled in, kill switch in center position, crank but no spark.

Is there a way to test the Motronic, HES and coil? I assume it's on of those. Though from what I did read, they were not common fail issues on the 1150Rt. The side stand and clutch switches could be a problem I know, how would I test for those?

Please point me in the right direction or to the posting where this has been discussed. I'm dying to try this bike out. Thank you!

Markus
2000 R1100RT 118k mi
2001 R1100RT 35k
2002 R1150GS 80k
2002 R1150RT 17k
 
Markus -

Generally the forum software search function is pretty poor. Your search found all threads with the word "no" and/or "spark" in them. So no wonder it was confusing! :)

While waiting for the experts, try this. Go to google and type in the search box site:forums.bmwmoa.org "no spark" ...include the quotes around no spark to find where these two words occur together. There might be some further reading there.
 
Step 1 would be to determine if it has just lost spark or whether it has also lost squirt. You can do this by removing one of the injectors but leaving the plumbing and wiring connected. Aiming the injector into a suitable container, crank the engine and observe the spray pattern. A nice spray is good. Dribbles are bad.

Your 2002 1150 is probably early enough that it was built with the early HES wiring which always fails. If the HES wiring fails you will lose both squirt and spark, or might get very erratic bits of both.

Do this test and let us know what you find.
 
PGlaves said:
Step 1 would be to determine if it has just lost spark or whether it has also lost squirt. You can do this by removing one of the injectors but leaving the plumbing and wiring connected. Aiming the injector into a suitable container, crank the engine and observe the spray pattern. A nice spray is good. Dribbles are bad.

Your 2002 1150 is probably early enough that it was built with the early HES wiring which always fails. If the HES wiring fails you will lose both squirt and spark, or might get very erratic bits of both.

Do this test and let us know what you find.
Click to expand...

I gotta second that comment after you have checked all your fuses, actually pulled them out and looked at them and pulled every relay and re-installed. Then you can confirm all your grounds are good and start looking for something more onerous.
 
20774 said:
Markus -

Generally the forum software search function is pretty poor. Your search found all threads with the word "no" and/or "spark" in them. So no wonder it was confusing! :)

While waiting for the experts, try this. Go to google and type in the search box site:forums.bmwmoa.org "no spark" ...include the quotes around no spark to find where these two words occur together. There might be some further reading there.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this! I have a new habit now.
 
PGlaves said:
Step 1 would be to determine if it has just lost spark or whether it has also lost squirt. You can do this by removing one of the injectors but leaving the plumbing and wiring connected. Aiming the injector into a suitable container, crank the engine and observe the spray pattern. A nice spray is good. Dribbles are bad.

Your 2002 1150 is probably early enough that it was built with the early HES wiring which always fails. If the HES wiring fails you will lose both squirt and spark, or might get very erratic bits of both.

Do this test and let us know what you find.
Click to expand...

Okay, so when I turn the bike on, I get a spray of fuel out of the injector, fine mist. When I crank, nothing. No fuel mist. Twist throttle, still no mist. This means HES is bad?
 
mykrs said:
Okay, so when I turn the bike on, I get a spray of fuel out of the injector, fine mist. When I crank, nothing. No fuel mist. Twist throttle, still no mist. This means HES is bad?
Click to expand...

It is a very strong indication that the HES wiring bundle is bad. I recommend you PM GSAddict who can provide good advice and he does rewire these HES.
 
PGlaves said:
It is a very strong indication that the HES wiring bundle is bad. I recommend you PM GSAddict who can provide good advice and he does rewire these HES.
Click to expand...

Thank you Paul.
Considering the low mileage (17k) I am doubtful that the wiring is bad enough yet to cause the issue.
That being said, although rare, is could be a faulty upper sensor. (which is replaceable)
I would be glad to test the unit on my rotating tester and do a heat test on both sensors.
Either way the wiring should be upgraded as it will fail at a later mileage.
Reto
 
MORE help Needed!

The hall sensor did the trick and there is spark!
Now...

There was no fuel, so I replaced the fuel pump, filter and hoses. The small hoses in the tank were shot, so I thought that was my problem, fixed.

Still wouldn't start, would chug a bit but wouldn't run.

I adjusted the valves, intakes were good. Exhaust were too tight. Both sides.

Checked fuel injectors, left side no action, right side some action. So I replaced the fuel injectors with used, but working, fuel injectors and both sides spit fuel, so installed them, and gave it a crank...

STILL won't start. It allllllmost starts, it sounds like it's gonna start, that cough of ignition, and sorta runs for just a second, but won't just catch and run.

What's left? What have I missed?

To remind you; This is a 2002 r1150rt with 17k miles that I bought not running from a guy who said it was idling, stopped and wouldn't start again, and it sat then for 8-10 months before he sold it.

All ideas are welcomed...it's got me beat right now. Thank you!

Markus
2002 GS
2000 RT
1999 Funduro
2001 RT
 
Go back to the beginning. Smarter folks know that you go back to the start and carry-on forward.

Pull, push, bang and blow.

If you are missing one or they aren't at the right time, it won't run.

If you got spark, fuel to the injectors, a compression test, properly done, might reveal a few things.
 
Well I did do a compression test, though I did not have both plugs out, I did hold the throttle open and I got 70 pounds per cylinder. If I took the other plug out and sprayed the cylinder with some oil would they go up to 90-100? Would both plugs being out make a big difference? Is 70 pounds really bad news?
 
mykrs said:
Is 70 pounds really bad news?
Click to expand...

In a word - yes. Make sure your valves are properly adjusted.

I'm sure others will chime in with suggestions however, all else being equal, I think you're going to be at least pulling the heads.
 
Typically a healthy oilhead should push 160+ psi cold, no oil sprayed in.
Both plugs out, throttle held wide open.
 
Total head scratcher

So, i sent the bike to a mechanic to be sure that i was doing the compression test right and it was a bad motor before i gave up on the bike.
he did a test and got in the 160 range on both cylinders. He also did a leak down and found a 12% leak rate.
spark.
The plugs that have fuel on them when he pulls them for a look after it won't start. They also turn black quickly he says.
He too can only get it to almost start but it won't fire up.

He also installed a new started saying the last one wasn't turning the bike fast enough.
(17k miles on this 2002 RT1150 Rt just to refresh)

So my thought is, it has spark, fuel, compression. So it's timing, right...? But I had the hall sensor rebuilt by GSaddict and installed on the same marks and I have a big blue spark.

ALSO he remarks the bike doesn't turn over easily, and I got the impression from the fogged oil glass that the bike had overheated before i got it. If that were true would that make the bike act this way? It does turn over, it just feels labored and it won't fire up.

Has anyone experienced this...? Thanks in advance.
 
160 psi=touch high, 140 PSI makes me happy
12 psi drop=bit much, less than 10% and I move on.
got fuel=OK, not done there, need to look at pressure, pressure hold time and next, the spreadsheet with coding plugs and so on.
Black plugs=air(not enough), timing late.
Starter=need roughly 160 RPM on crank
Fogged oil glass=could be Lucas(mine did that). An overheat might look a lot like melted fairing or really blue pipes.
Labouring on start=timing

I think you jumped the primary chain or worse, you peeled the liner off a chain tensioner on one head or both.

Easy=Peasy, do a valve overlap comparison and Bob's your uncle or your brother or father or soon to be son-in law's father.

For a good mechanic, the test is in his back pocket. For a technician, bit of stretch to read a dial indicator and for the average person, the Google and Youtube!!!
 
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