Technology!!! Enough Already.....

GTRider said:

Bitch, Moan, and Whine sometimes seems to be the order of the day around here!


DeVern

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underneath that, though, there is a point. At what point is technology offering diminishing returns for cost and complexity, insane insurance (see complexity and cost) added distractions, "gee whizz" gee gaws added simply "because they can".

SkyWorker... Anakin's family name

rangerreece said:

Even retired soldiers still retain that one right, the right to Bi***... err, I mean offer meaningful and insightful constructive critiszim and well thoughout alternative courses of action.

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PIP'd (Product Improvement Program)

rick601 said:

underneath that, though, there is a point. At what point is technology offering diminishing returns for cost and complexity, insane insurance (see complexity and cost) added distractions, "gee whizz" gee gaws added simply "because they can".

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And yet, a good many of the technology changes that are introduced grow out of research into what present and future buyers are wanting or supporting. This is a recent example appearing first on BMW but that will eventually be seen on other marques as well:
(Clicky pic)


Their research indicates 80% of buyers will like or support the new screen. 20% will likely be vocal in their opposition. Technology, like life, marches on.

As a side note, when I bought my 2018GS the dealer had a special-order, plain-Jane 2018GS on the showroom floor. It had been ordered as a special build, the only way they could get it with absolutely NO options or added electronics or accessories. The buyer backed out after it was too late to cancel the order so the dealer had it marked way down to get it moved.

On my last trip to the showroom that bike was still sitting there.

Best,
DeVern

Kawasaki is unveiling several new 2021 models tomorrow.
Maybe the KLR650 will be back next year with ABS and fuel injection.
One article i read indicated that was a very popular bike but couldn’t meet emissions standards carbureted.

GTRider said:

..This is a recent example appearing first on BMW but that will eventually be seen on other marques as well:...

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Wow, so is that sort of like CarPlay for bikes? That approach is SO MUCH better than the proprietary crap that has been pushed on drivers for the last 15 or 20 years.

GTRider said:

And yet, a good many of the technology changes that are introduced grow out of research into what present and future buyers are wanting or supporting. This is a recent example appearing first on BMW but that will eventually be seen on other marques as well:
(Clicky pic)
View attachment 81197

Their research indicates 80% of buyers will like or support the new screen. 20% will likely be vocal in their opposition. Technology, like life, marches on.

As a side note, when I bought my 2018GS the dealer had a special-order, plain-Jane 2018GS on the showroom floor. It had been ordered as a special build, the only way they could get it with absolutely NO options or added electronics or accessories. The buyer backed out after it was too late to cancel the order so the dealer had it marked way down to get it moved.

On my last trip to the showroom that bike was still sitting there.

Best,
DeVern

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I didn't mean to go all Luddite- and your example is an excellent one of an evolution that responds to needs and wants, as well as offering some integration. My son DOES lean Luddite and now really appreciates the TFT on his new Scrambler XE. As much as I appreciate knowing the Date, Time, temp outside, oil temp, tire pressure, weather, charging amperage,5 weather channels, 200 radio stations programs, thumb drive contents, ride mode, etc etc- I've got to learn to just ride before I toggle myself to death! But-to your point, existence of and responsible use thereof are two different things.

AntonLargiader said:

Wow, so is that sort of like CarPlay for bikes? That approach is SO MUCH better than the proprietary crap that has been pushed on drivers for the last 15 or 20 years.

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It will be interesting to watch this develop. After purchasing a bike with TFT display it did not take me long to decide that as implemented, the TFT/Connect app was a shot wide of the mark and that Motorrad and customers would have been better served by licensing Car Play/Android Auto, especially since that technology was already available in the car line. But such a licensing agreement would be expensive if Motorrad division had to contract on their own for those services on smaller production numbers—the cost per unit would be large.

For me, the questions on this new unit center on how the screen and phone will communicate and be controlled. Touch screen, with the phone app able to be controlled from the screen? Wonder Wheel controlling screen and phone? What about the mfgrs who don’t have a control device like WW already integrated into their designs? Or will this be a one-way unicast setup requiring the phone to be accessible for control?
As I said, this will be interesting indeed.

Best,
DeVern

rick601 said:

I didn't mean to go all Luddite- and your example is an excellent one of an evolution that responds to needs and wants, as well as offering some integration. My son DOES lean Luddite and now really appreciates the TFT on his new Scrambler XE. As much as I appreciate knowing the Date, Time, temp outside, oil temp, tire pressure, weather, charging amperage,5 weather channels, 200 radio stations programs, thumb drive contents, ride mode, etc etc- I've got to learn to just ride before I toggle myself to death! But-to your point, existence of and responsible use thereof are two different things.

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Aaahhh...I have my own Luddite gene that rears it’s head from time to time!
Your point on responsible use is spot on—I would hope we motorcyclists do a better job with that than the cagers seem to be doing. I still have to force myself to slow down and make sure ALL systems and settings are complete before releasing the clutch at the start of a ride, and to clearly differentiate between minor checks/changes that can be handled while moving and those that require pulling off somewhere so that both traffic and technology get their proper focus.

Best,
DeVern

Might be me.....Might be the area I ride here in bad driverland. I don’t think I could run a touch-screen while operating my bike.
OM

GTRider said:

I still have to force myself to slow down and make sure ALL systems and settings are complete before releasing the clutch at the start of a ride, and to clearly differentiate between minor checks/changes that can be handled while moving and those that require pulling off somewhere so that both traffic and technology get their proper focus.

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I know exactly what you mean. When I drive a school bus (I'm a sub driver for my kids' school) it's actually against state law to operate a device while driving, as well as talk or text. I do use a GPS on unfamiliar routes, and it is a big safety aid, but if I don't get it set up the way I need it I can't touch it until I'm parked again and being stopped at a light doesn't count. The state dictates the "clearly differentiate between minor checks/changes that can be handled while moving and those that require pulling off somewhere" part; there is nothing in the first category.

I have pretty little interest in using a touch screen while riding a motorcycle, but a multi-purpose display that I can do whatever on (whatever is on my phone) in addition to having the basic bike info, sounds good to me. Probably just nav, for me, but I'm sure there's a market for music and comms. The big draw is having a bright, weatherproof, integrated display. If not for that, we'd just use cheap Android tablets.

Technology,Enough alredy

akbeemer said:

I am suffering from technology overload, frustration and disappointment. In the past 4-5 months we have had the following gizmos fail: our PackTalk Bolds were often not repairing after a break in commo due to distance or masking, they were replaced by Cardo; Annie's electronic speedo on her Ural failed and was replaced under warranty; Annie's Hex ezCAN on her R1200GS would no longer power her auxilliary lights, it was out of warranty so I bought another and it is acting a bit wonky as well; my NAV VI GPS began "ghosting" while we were in Utah and became unusable, Garmin replaced it without any fanfare; a year or so ago my Hex GS911 failed, it was out of warranty but a well known purveyor of all things BMW interceded on my behalf and it was replaced. It is good that the manufacturers have all stood behind their warrantees but the time it takes to sort things out and the related stress it causes is getting very tiresome.

So enough is enough. Anyone have a few Airheads for sale?

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I own a '76 R60/6. No electronics. Just start and ride. I use paper maps if needed. No electronics. Have I needed any with 90,000 miles on the clock ? Not at all. Never been lost with 300,000 miles on motorcycles. No music. I want to hear horns and the motor. Anything else is a dangerous distraction , in my opinion. Turn of the idiot electronics and ride. You'll enjoy yourself more.

Saw this while pedaling a less complicated machine yesterday and thought of this thread.

Made me think grandpa was holding back Junior on using such a new fangled machine when the mule does all he needs it to do.

Anyways, owning a few iterations of equipment spanning decades I appreciate both camps. Still a map guy but do also use a GPS often. Newest bikes we have are a 2011 GSA and a 2015&16 KTM. Oldest running right now is a ‘74 /6. ALL at some point will cause some consternation to say the least. Can remedy most issues and get on down the road. I have equal issues with old school vs. modern so just roll with it.
My truck is a 2003 and H’s a 2011... still doing what we need them to do.

I relate to the OP as it has been one of those years where things have just gone off course. A newly upgraded appliance package has a range, dishwasher, and refrigerator all acting up in various forms and getting replacements is the Slow Boat ride. Dishes are wet, cooktop down to two “ burners” and can hear the
fridge from other side of house. We survive!

On recent trip a GPS( antique 550) fizzled but the new to me bike had a NAV IV I haven’t fell in love with sitting above the dash and I had six state maps under my chin which are marked up daily
with plan of the day... the GPS enhances options.
My phone cratered... a 5S... missed the camera... The old Sena we use for two rider travel also failed when I was with a group and the other three wanted to chat. Back to ADV Salutes and tank or stomach
pointing
That ride in spite of acting up gizmos was still a fantastic trip and didn’t alter a thing.


I do listen to tunes and directions often but no calls. Sometimes the voices in my head need company. Have earplugs anyway and can hear and feel the motor to know how that’s going. I can hear sirens and horns but either may mean I am the offender. I do actually take a hand off the bars when it’s safe for what I need to do. Either asking the GPS where some fuel may be or how lost am I. It amuses me so there’s that.


Will either of us have a newer model... sure at some point , not anti tech.... just haven’t been overwhelmed into wanting it yet.

nickrides said:

Marketplace is always a good place to go look and go back in time and purchase a Airhead, if you desire.
I looked at Airheads in there yesterday, there are a couple of Gems looking for some love.
Nick
1978 R 80

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Yep. Just parted with my '17 GSA while it was still in warranty ('cuz that makes it easier to sell quickly and I don't want to own any of the Mothership's R1200/R1250 offerings out of warranty) and am now thinkin' 'bout picking up one of those well
maintained Airheads offered on Marketplace. I will miss the GSA's 300+ mile range, electronic cruise control, and heated grips, and the ABS has come to my aid a few times in the wet, but most of my riding life these didn't exist so until I am convinced the 2021 R1250s are sorted out, I'll happily motor along as I did 40 years ago on a bike I can do most of the maintenance on myself.

One of the many things I like about my R12GSA is how easy it is to maintain. A full service, including pulling the drive shaft, and a few other tasks not normally part of a service, can be done in a couple of easy days. Probably could get it done in one if I wanted to. The only time it was ever in a dealership was to have the recall on the front forks performed.

1957mpd said:

Yep. Just parted with my '17 GSA while it was still in warranty ('cuz that makes it easier to sell quickly and I don't want to own any of the Mothership's R1200/R1250 offerings out of warranty) and am now thinkin' 'bout picking up one of those well
maintained Airheads offered on Marketplace. I will miss the GSA's 300+ mile range, electronic cruise control, and heated grips, and the ABS has come to my aid a few times in the wet, but most of my riding life these didn't exist so until I am convinced the 2021 R1250s are sorted out, I'll happily motor along as I did 40 years ago on a bike I can do most of the maintenance on myself.

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I wonder if a R9T or R18 would be a better choice in terms of long term out of warranty ownership They are basically older and bucked out tech.

ponch1 said:

I wonder if a R9T or R18 would be a better choice in terms of long term out of warranty ownership They are basically older and bucked out tech.

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An interesting question. But as the R18 wet outweighs me by 621 lbs, it's pretty much a no-go. 64 next naked day and while pretty fit, I do not relish pushing that beast around in the garage.

1957mpd said:

An interesting question. But as the R18 wet outweighs me by 621 lbs, it's pretty much a no-go. 64 next naked day and while pretty fit, I do not relish pushing that beast around in the garage.

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It might be 500 heavier than me. It's a lot of bike, but it would be easier to live with than the liquid cooled boxers or the K bikes in the long run.

The analog clock on my R1100R is ticking away on time after 22 years.
When I sync the throttle bodies, I adjust a cable very similar to adjusting a bicycles' brakes...
I do have ABS, and it comes with a low battery light as a bonus... usually on cold mornings.
The valves are easy to adjust, and best of all... no "Service Needed" code to be reset with a computer.

STEVENRANKIN said:

I wonder, for those who are pining for a return to simpler times, what are you really asking for?...

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Well, I'd take a 1200 wethead with keyed ignition, conventional shocks, a single engine mode, and cruise control. I tried to get one but my dealer wouldn't bring in any basic bikes.

As it turned out, I bought a loaded R1200RS, but I got the options, (and even the sales tax) for free since the bike was a clear out item. I just decided to live with the complexity, as the bike is brilliant. The service head of my mega dealer says the electronics are pretty robust, and they have a direct data link to New Jersey if they encounter anything weird.