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Thread: Technology!!! Enough Already.....

  1. #31
    SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cap View Post
    I posed that question because I thought it might provoke the realization that it can't happen, and most of us don't really want that anyway. BMW, like any manufacturer, must recoup their costs and make a profit. If BMW introduces a low-volume line of motorcycles that are characterized by low-tech, low maintenance, and long service life, then they will lose money on every one. And their dealers will not benefit, either, from sales of service and parts. Why would BMW do that? They can't possibly compete for that market segment with motorcycles made in places having lower allocated fixed costs per unit. Attempting to compete in that segment will drive them out of business. I want BMW to stay in business, so I don't want them to try that.

    So, I pay a lot for BMW techno wizardry, and I use some but not all of it, and mostly do my own maintenance. If something breaks, I replace it. I very much prefer my R1200RTW to an FJR, which is very capable and very reliable and somewhat dated. And I chose that comparison deliberately: the FJR1300 is the best example of what you seem to want. But the sales of the FJR are poor, and it seems that Yamaha has decided to stop importing them to the USA for 2021. Even Yamaha can't make any money on that segment.

    Cheers, Cap
    There will be a 2021 FJR in North America (https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sp...dels/fjr1300es). I believe nothing but the color has changed. Not going to be available in the EU due to their new emmisions regulations. I had a 2013 FJR for five years and a 2012 Super Tenere for three. Both were very reliable with no failures. I could never get the ergonomics of the FJR where I wanted them and the Super Tenere always seemed a bit crude to me. The FJR is still on the low end of the technology scale for sure.
    Kevin Huddy
    The Outpost, Silver City, Montana
    Never have more ambition than adhesion.

  2. #32
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cap View Post
    I posed that question because I thought it might provoke the realization that it can't happen, and most of us don't really want that anyway. BMW, like any manufacturer, must recoup their costs and make a profit. If BMW introduces a low-volume line of motorcycles that are characterized by low-tech, low maintenance, and long service life, then they will lose money on every one. And their dealers will not benefit, either, from sales of service and parts. Why would BMW do that? They can't possibly compete for that market segment with motorcycles made in places having lower allocated fixed costs per unit. Attempting to compete in that segment will drive them out of business. I want BMW to stay in business, so I don't want them to try that.

    So, I pay a lot for BMW techno wizardry, and I use some but not all of it, and mostly do my own maintenance. If something breaks, I replace it. I very much prefer my R1200RTW to an FJR, which is very capable and very reliable and somewhat dated. And I chose that comparison deliberately: the FJR1300 is the best example of what you seem to want. But the sales of the FJR are poor, and it seems that Yamaha has decided to stop importing them to the USA for 2021. Even Yamaha can't make any money on that segment.

    Cheers, Cap
    BMW may be able to split the difference. Possibly having the design team actually having been involved with motorcycles through all phases, like building, assembly, riding and maintenance. Having known suppliers with better track records would reduce the cost of all the warranty claims, stop ride/stop sell orders resulting in bad publicity......
    Or, these complications could be all by design. A design that specifically encourages visits to the dealerships that seem to be having a hard time staying in business and finding qualified help
    There is a number of things that I would like to "hire" out but around here it's parts swapping or in the case of todays project, rebuilding the upper controls (low pressure over high pressure) of my vintage SkyWorker. When I ask around I either get "you still have one of those" or "what is a SkyWorker"?

    OM
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  3. #33
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    Yes what is a Sky Worker?

  4. #34
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUGENE View Post
    Yes what is a Sky Worker?
    Bucket truck.
    Cherry icker
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
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    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Bucket truck.
    Cherry icker
    Sky Worker must be a brand name or an east coast thing.
    Yes I worked in several of them, twice 125' above the ground!

  6. #36
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUGENE View Post
    Yes what is a Sky Worker?
    SkyWorker's revolutionized aerial bucket truck work in the early days. Originally produced by Hughes-Keenan out of Delaware Ohio, they were the thing to have in the early days. They were a rather interesting contraption utilizing Nautilus looking, cable wrapped sections that were moved by a straight hydraulic piston(s).



    In the picture is a fair representation of the one I have had for years. While being a tool that sorta revolutionized the tree industry, It had its limits in the ever increasing height of "primary" power lines. Another limit was the "cast" aluminum Nautilus "elbow" that was prone to developed stress cracks that were usually only discovered after a catastrophic failure. Later "elbow" or "knuckle" repairs were done with hand-laid and welded steel and much more durable. My SkyWorker is the epitome of old technology.
    Repairing these gave birth to Aerial Lift of Conn, now defunct. At 46' to the rim of the basket, they are way short for today's tree work as most tree companies buy lifts that are 75' tall.
    On non truck mounted units, the tallest that I have ever used is the 135' series.
    OM
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  7. #37
    Registered User AntonLargiader's Avatar
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    I get what you're saying, but I don't see you escaping that by going back to an Airhead. You like communicators and GPS, you're going to use them on the Airhead and have the same chance of problems. You could have hooked up the aux lights on Annie's bike the same way you would have on the Airhead. You don't need a GS911. The high-tech stuff is generally opt-in.

    You like gadgets. Nothing wrong with that; I do too. I'm adding TPMS to one of my Airheads!

    Wearing out expensive vehicles is expensive. $3k apiece for new K5x suspension... I recently did a $3k suspension upgrade on an Airhead!

    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    The NAV VI is not aftermarket, nor was the TPS that failed on Annie’s 2017 R12GS that I neglected to mention, but who made the techno gizmo is beside the point. This is not aimed at BMW but rather at the cost we (I) pay in stress and dollars for the high tech bikes and gear we use. We have two 2017 wetheads that are approaching 50,000 miles. The threat of needing to spend $6,000 to replace the dynamic suspensions is all too real.

    Just a rant to vent. Not claiming victim status, just exercising my God given ability to bitch.
    Anton Largiader 72724
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  8. #38
    SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntonLargiader View Post
    I get what you're saying, but I don't see you escaping that by going back to an Airhead. You like communicators and GPS, you're going to use them on the Airhead and have the same chance of problems. You could have hooked up the aux lights on Annie's bike the same way you would have on the Airhead. You don't need a GS911. The high-tech stuff is generally opt-in.

    You like gadgets. Nothing wrong with that; I do too. I'm adding TPMS to one of my Airheads!

    Wearing out expensive vehicles is expensive. $3k apiece for new K5x suspension... I recently did a $3k suspension upgrade on an Airhead!
    Anton, I realize this is a bed of my own making and I know I would not be satisfied even if I could divest myself of most of the tech stuff, but that's not going to stop me from lamenting the frustration that tech can cause. Besides, if I went back to Airheads, then I would probably go broke adding a bunch of modern technology to them.
    Kevin Huddy
    The Outpost, Silver City, Montana
    Never have more ambition than adhesion.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    Anton, I realize this is a bed of my own making and I know I would not be satisfied even if I could divest myself of most of the tech stuff, but that's not going to stop me from lamenting the frustration that tech can cause. Besides, if I went back to Airheads, then I would probably go broke adding a bunch of modern technology to them.
    Even retired soldiers still retain that one right, the right to Bi***... err, I mean complain.
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  10. #40
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerreece View Post
    Even retired soldiers still retain that one right, the right to Bi***... err, I mean complain.
    Bitch, Moan, and Whine sometimes seems to be the order of the day around here!


    DeVern
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider View Post
    Bitch, Moan, and Whine sometimes seems to be the order of the day around here!


    DeVern
    underneath that, though, there is a point. At what point is technology offering diminishing returns for cost and complexity, insane insurance (see complexity and cost) added distractions, "gee whizz" gee gaws added simply "because they can".

  12. #42
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    SkyWorker... Anakin's family name

  13. #43
    SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerreece View Post
    Even retired soldiers still retain that one right, the right to Bi***... err, I mean offer meaningful and insightful constructive critiszim and well thoughout alternative courses of action.
    PIP'd (Product Improvement Program)
    Kevin Huddy
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  14. #44
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick601 View Post
    underneath that, though, there is a point. At what point is technology offering diminishing returns for cost and complexity, insane insurance (see complexity and cost) added distractions, "gee whizz" gee gaws added simply "because they can".
    And yet, a good many of the technology changes that are introduced grow out of research into what present and future buyers are wanting or supporting. This is a recent example appearing first on BMW but that will eventually be seen on other marques as well:
    (Clicky pic)
    0F07A469-BF58-4985-9080-B891583FA114.jpeg

    Their research indicates 80% of buyers will like or support the new screen. 20% will likely be vocal in their opposition. Technology, like life, marches on.

    As a side note, when I bought my 2018GS the dealer had a special-order, plain-Jane 2018GS on the showroom floor. It had been ordered as a special build, the only way they could get it with absolutely NO options or added electronics or accessories. The buyer backed out after it was too late to cancel the order so the dealer had it marked way down to get it moved.

    On my last trip to the showroom that bike was still sitting there.

    Best,
    DeVern
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST — 1984 R80 G/S-PD — 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C — 2010 K1300GT — 2018 R1200GS
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  15. #45
    Kawasaki is unveiling several new 2021 models tomorrow.
    Maybe the KLR650 will be back next year with ABS and fuel injection.
    One article i read indicated that was a very popular bike but couldn’t meet emissions standards carbureted.
    -Live as fully as you can as long as you can-

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