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Harley Cuts Workforce by 500 - Concentrates on Big, Expensive Models

The way I see it is this:

HD is dropping the Sportster and Street models in Europe because they won't meet Euro 5. Those models will remain in production as the US is their (HD) biggest market. The European market is realy secondary for HD.

BMW is dropping the K1600 because there is no great demand for the luxo-tourer and all its variant in America or Europe. Their best seller is the GS by far. The RT and its variants will remain due to the GS popularity. Their develpment costs are shared. And for better or for worse, they have a new engine frame platform with the R-18 that will be available in cruiser, bagger and soon in tourer form. Except for Honda with its Wing, the tourer market is mostly large V-Twins, in America. It makes sense for BMW to join that trend but I don't see how they could develop and support 3 Tour bikes.
 
Large touring models

I know they don't make up a lot of the touring market but what about Moto Guzzi and Yamaha large touring models? :scratch The Gold Wing maybe the popular.
 
PGlaves said:
So, HD is "doing just fine" with the Euro 5 spec but (according to this thread) BMW can't meet it with the K1600." I say balderdash. Both of these cannot be true at the same time in my opinion.
Click to expand...


I too think BMW could meet Euro 5 specifications, if they wanted, but I think they may have decided to go in a different direction. I've heard one owner give a lot of positive comments to the K1600B. However, I’ve read that there is an instability issue over 100 mph. Instability seems to be an issue that owners don't want mentioned when it comes to their preferred model even over 100 mph.

E.
 
easy said:
I too think BMW could meet Euro 5 specifications, if they wanted, but I think they may have decided to go in a different direction. I've heard one owner give a lot of positive comments to the K1600B. However, I’ve read that there is an instability issue over 100 mph. Instability seems to be an issue that owners don't want mentioned when it comes to their preferred model even over 100 mph.

E.
Click to expand...

Can’t hardly wait until someone starts a federal highway safety complaint on this “problem”. :rofl :rofl
OM
 
I rode the K1600B and found it to be "underwhelming". My R1200GS accelerates and handles better for sure. Now from what I understand, the K1600GT is a different story, but really, why do you need an extra 4 cylinders? (rhetorical)
 
azgman said:
I rode the K1600B and found it to be "underwhelming". My R1200GS accelerates and handles better for sure. Now from what I understand, the K1600GT is a different story, but really, why do you need an extra 4 cylinders? (rhetorical)
Click to expand...

An inline six is the simplest engine design that has almost perfect primary and secondary mechanical engine balance for almost no vibration and very smooth running and idle. The more cylinders the more even the power delivery per combustion stroke. All things being equal, more cylinders are easier for a starter motor to turn the engine over. A boxer twin also has excellent primary balance, but generates rocking couple due to the offset rods on the crank.
 
Don't the K 1600GT, and the K 1600B both have a 6-cylinder with the same horsepower and torque?

E.
 
Last edited:
easy said:
Don't the K 1600GT, and the K 1600B both have a 6-cylinder with the same horsepower and torque?

E.
Click to expand...

Both have 160 HP at 7,750 RPM and torque of 129 at 5,250 rpm.

It's possible the throttle by wire may have a different feel.
 
easy said:
I've heard one owner give a lot of positive comments to the K1600B. However, I’ve read that there is an instability issue over 100 mph. Instability seems to be an issue that owners don't want mentioned when it comes to their preferred model even over 100 mph.

E.
Click to expand...

Are you thinking of the K1600 Grand America? The Grand America is the only K1600 limited to 101 mph.
 
Lee said:
Are you thinking of the K1600 Grand America? The Grand America is the only K1600 limited to 101 mph.
Click to expand...

And, I've been told by a dealership that it is due to instability issues over 101.

But if the K 1600 lineup is dropped...

patm said:
The way I see it is this:

HD is dropping the Sportster and Street models in Europe because they won't meet Euro 5. Those models will remain in production as the US is their (HD) biggest market. The European market is really secondary for HD.

BMW is dropping the K1600 because there is no great demand for the luxo-tourer and all its variant in America or Europe. Their best seller is the GS by far. The RT and its variants will remain due to the GS popularity. Their develpment costs are shared. And for better or for worse, they have a new engine frame platform with the R-18 that will be available in cruiser, bagger and soon in tourer form. Except for Honda with its Wing, the tourer market is mostly large V-Twins, in America. It makes sense for BMW to join that trend but I don't see how they could develop and support 3 Tour bikes.
Click to expand...

... wouldn't BMW want a bike with a little more top end performance than the K 1600 Grand America has due to a speed limiter of @101 mph, or a K 1600 B with a dealership installed speed limiter of @ 101 mph as a condition of adding a top case? Didn't the '18, and '19 Gold Wing Tourer have a top speed of @ 125 mph?

Don't get me wrong. I don't ride down TX 16 at 126 mph. But, if BMW can't make a luxury tourer without stability issues that has better numbers than the Gold Wing, perhaps BMW should get out of the U.S. luxury touring market.

I think BMW can compete with the Honda Goldwing Tourer, but with BMW dropping the complete k 1600 lineup isn't logical to think that BMW has something in the planning stages for a large touring bike? (My german is not that good anymore, but I too think the article says the complete k 1600 line will be dropped. https://www.motorradonline.de/ratgeber/motorraeder-ohne-euro-5-diese-modelle-fallen-raus/ )

I'm outa here. Still some good riding weather out there. :wave

E.
 
Last edited:
MotorWeek just had a favorable review and test of that electric Harley bike. It looks pretty nice...actually. I’m kinda amazed at the $27,500 price tag. :dunno
OM
 
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