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Harley Cuts Workforce by 500 - Concentrates on Big, Expensive Models

There is a huge amount of touring Harley riders that just like to ride. Probably little difference from the BMW touring riders. I ride with a bunch that will ride 500 miles round trip in a day, just for lunch.

I do get a kick out of it. I see many of the same similarities in BMW riders as I see in Harley riders. Brand faithful, talk about mods, exhaust, seats and lighting. Some ride across town, some ride across the USA.

There is the tough as nails, 1%'er types that mostly ride Harleys. I have seen a few on BMWs too.

I went on a Harley ride out to Red Lodge MT. One guy I knew finally showed up. I jokingly asked him what took so long. He left Fargo Saturday AM, rode out to California, up Highway 1 and back to Red Lodge, the long way, plus some side adventures. He had put on 5,000 miles in seven days to get to Red Lodge.

Exactly. And, I've met other Harley riders just like this guy. Harley's have been solid mechanically - as much or more so than any other bike - for several decades. Their only limitation is the rider - just like BMWs. :hide
 
Let me ask you, if BMW style bikes (RT, RS, GS - which would include all similar competitive brands/models) were to go away, leaving you only a cruiser style, low to the ground, V-twin, shake-rattle-and roll bike to ride - would you?

Well, I have to think it's a bit of a leap to take out the entire industry. If BMW went out of business I wouldn't be happy but I'd likely buy a Concours. If Harley went out business there are alternatives available from just about every other manufacturer. If every other bike maker went away, for me there isn't an alternative that I could buy from Harley. And that's a whole other discussion...which we may as well get into... :laugh. I was cautiously optimistic / excited when I heard that Harley had plans to revamp their line of bikes with new models and engines. That's all been deep-sixed now which is a real shame.

Next beer is on me. :D
 
It all has not been deep sixed. I believe the Pan-Am is still a go. The Bronx got the axe, also they dropped a few models of big twins.

Harley buyers are a fickle bunch. They like big heavy, slow bikes steeped in tradition. I am on a popular HD forum and once in a while guys mention they would like to see HD bring back a modern version of the shovel head. Sure it might be neat to own a modernized version of an early motorcycle of any brand, but it would be a novelty.
 
I am on a popular HD forum and once in a while guys mention they would like to see HD bring back a modern version of the shovel head.[ /QUOTE]

Do any of those guys have an airhead BMW in the garage? Just wondering...
:scratch
:)
DeVern
 
That makes perfectly good sense to me. When sales are dropping it doesn't make sense to have a wide range of models. Many of the models were variations of others and had limited sales. Build nice base models and sell accessories to build like the rider wants.
 
I think the biggest problem that Harley has in sales is not price, or the style of the bikes it is just their core demographic is aging out.

Some how they have leveraged the Harley life style so effectively, that it was self limiting...their dealers and customers would scorn newer, divergent models that could have expanded their market to a broader audience. Exploiting the lifestyle market with clothes, etc while very sucessfurll from a $$$ stand point further amplified and narrowed their own market acceptance.

Sales have been slipping for years.....they haven't found a way to escape their own marketing successes. But there will always be a "core" ride of a younger generation that will stick with this image and life style. It seems this is what Harley has chosen to stay with....the only question is what size is that market evolving to? Do they seen the MAGA core as an analogy that may help sustain them?

I'm glad BMW has long been more open to other motor cycle styles, niches. the R18 is the most recent example.
Who would of thought that stodgy black, quiet road bikes of the sixties would evolve to the Bumble Bee GS and open a whole new market area?
BWM has effectively expanded it's market clientel several time......some of these attempts have not been successful....the purchase of Husky was one of those.
 
I'm glad BMW has long been more open to other motor cycle styles, niches. the R18 is the most recent example.
Who would of thought that stodgy black, quiet road bikes of the sixties would evolve to the Bumble Bee GS and open a whole new market area?
BWM has effectively expanded it's market clientel several time......some of these attempts have not been successful....the purchase of Husky was one of those.

Those of us who bore the interest, but also the ridicule for buying a "Jap bike" K75 or K100 by the Airhead diehards 35 years ago would just smile at this statement. And then the Oilheads in '93 and Funduro in '97 too. And the 4 cylinder wedge bikes. And then the 800 twins. And the S1000. And the 310s. And the R18.

Indeed, BMW did not stay with just their core Boxers. And on this forum and elsewhere every such move by BMW was met by ridicule from a few folks, which is really rather sad. Just because a bike is not the one for me, does not mean it isn't the bike for you.
 
IMO, much of Harleys dilemma comes from poor engineering and poor performance. There are very few engines that have not had problems when first released. Going back to everyone's beloved Evo, cracked and porous castings, the Twin Cam, cam bearing failures, outer bearings, then iners, then cam chain tensioners. Then later in they went to the six speed transmission, and they were noisy and HD revamped the main shaft, then compensators, my 2010 went through four of them. Then the release of the M8 in 2017 and that has been a mess too. Failed counter balancer bearing, transmissions passing oil into the primary case, oil pump revisions, six of them?

When I rode my birst BMW I got a kick out of it. It handled, rode and performed great right out of the box. I didn't have to drop another $3,000 into it to get it to perform at a reasonable level.

Then bring in Indian. They have brought some interesting and great performing motorcycles to market in a short time. Guys can buy nostalgia and have it run too.

Harley is getting beat up by themselves. They need to get out of the nostalgia rut and build a better motorcycle.

Who in the hell builds a motorcycle with a pressed together crankshaft other than Harley? Time for the shop in the backyard mentality to go away. They need to build a unitized engine and transmission, fully water cooled with a forged one piece crankshaft. HD killed the best engine they ever built, the Vrod. They should have tun with that technology and built it into a touring bike.
 
A large percentage of people buy Harleys because of the name. How many buy them and don't leave them alone. Then have some work done to them and they run worst then before and you talk to them and they tell you how good it is. Then you have the people just beaten the hell out of them. Just look at there Tee shirt sales how many people by them and never ridden a bike. It wouldn't surprise me that when Harley was having them good years over 50% of the were first time bike riders owners, but had to have a Harley. Same thing happen when all the bike shows were on TV, people went out and paid crazy money for those custom bikes.
 
Those of us who bore the interest, but also the ridicule for buying a "Jap bike" K75 or K100 by the Airhead diehards 35 years ago would just smile at this statement. And then the Oilheads in '93 and Funduro in '97 too. And the 4 cylinder wedge bikes. And then the 800 twins. And the S1000. And the 310s. And the R18.

Indeed, BMW did not stay with just their core Boxers. And on this forum and elsewhere every such move by BMW was met by ridicule from a few folks, which is really rather sad. Just because a bike is not the one for me, does not mean it isn't the bike for you.

:thumb :thumb :thumb

Even the much venerated /5 series was seen by the BMW "purists" at the time as "not a real BMW" because it had "plastic" (actually fiberglass) fenders, and an (optional) electric starter, and so on.
 
It's market saturation which for the time being will only get worse. Soon there will be thousands more used Harleys hitting the market.

But they'll always need t-shirts, and lick-on tattoos.



E.
 
You all have good points about Harley expanding their market. Before I bought my GS I was toying with the idea of buying a Harley. However I didn't like their sales approach, and the GS opened many more doors for me. But what I wanted was a classic, air-cooled V-Twin, that sounded and looked like a classic Harley. I rented a Heritage Classic for the weekend and really enjoyed it. I never thought 'hey they should water-cool this so I can have 30 more hp'. We call that an Indian. They are in a quandary of how to expand a market which they have defined so tightly and effectively.

BTW I thought the quality looked very convincing. Great paint, nice polished metal surfaces, and very little plastic to be found.

rickdm
 
Like beauty, quality is more than skin deep.


After running Harleys for the last 15 years there is no argument that their paint and finish is second to none, but dig a little deeper and I believe Harley has a long way to go on the technology side. Too bad the typical Harley buyer wants nostalgia, fat, heavy and slow over higher tech.
 
After running Harleys for the last 15 years there is no argument that their paint and finish is second to none, but dig a little deeper and I believe Harley has a long way to go on the technology side. Too bad the typical Harley buyer wants nostalgia, fat, heavy and slow over higher tech.

Harley or BMW........still problems pairing da Bluetooth. :D
OM
 
After running Harleys for the last 15 years there is no argument that their paint and finish is second to none, but dig a little deeper and I believe Harley has a long way to go on the technology side. Too bad the typical Harley buyer wants nostalgia, fat, heavy and slow over higher tech.

This sort of nails it. Harley is selling what their traditional buyer want!

Remember after Harley management bought out AMF, they recognized their engine problems...but they wanted to keep the "look and feel" for their market. They hired Porsche to do a redesign of the engine. This updated the engine materials, dimensioning, etc etc while keeping the look. Engine reliability issue were solved.

Shortly after they tried to expand their market in a gradual manor...with a fully modern V twin (for that time) hence the V=Rod...it did not catch with their dealer, market and suffered slow sales.

It seems they are doing just fine now with Euro 5 spec. They can do technology when they want to.....just their narrowing market /dealers do not want visible technology.

FWIW There is a substantial BMW community that ALSO does not want similar visible technology...note the "Technology...enough already!" thread!!!
 
It seems they are doing just fine now with Euro 5 spec. They can do technology when they want to.....just their narrowing market /dealers do not want visible technology.

So, HD is "doing just fine" with the Euro 5 spec but (according to this thread) BMW can't meet it with the K1600." I say balderdash. Both of these cannot be true at the same time in my opinion.
 
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