60,000 mile valve adjust intervals?

oldcamper · Oct 18, 2020

According to advrider, Ducati is about to announce a new v-4 engine with 60,000 mile valve adjust intervals, and 15,000 mile oil change recommendation.

https://advrider.com/ducati-releases-new-v4-granturismo-engine/

Hopefully this technology will spill over to other brands.

pglaves · Oct 18, 2020

OldCamper said:
According to advrider, Ducati is about to announce a new v-4 engine with 60,000 mile valve adjust intervals, and 15,000 mile oil change recommendation.

https://advrider.com/ducati-releases-new-v4-granturismo-engine/

Hopefully this technology will spill over to other brands.

So what "technology" permits one engine to need an oil change at 15K miles and another engine to need an oil change at 6K miles, or 3K miles? How does the construction of an engine accomplish this?

blackbill13 · Oct 18, 2020

Thicker metal??

Maybe they build the engine using thicker metal so it can wear longer with poorer oil.
Then you get an engine change at 30,000 miles.
Just a thought.

Omega Man · Oct 18, 2020

I saw this. Probably would just run something with these “new” specs like everything else I run.
I just helped out a friend by doing an oil and filter on a ‘17 Tahoe. He was jammed up and the dashboard indicated 25% oil service life left. I guess that Chevy has some sort of algorithm for miles, maybe time, maybe temperature to achieve this.
At least it still had a dip-stick.
OM

PoorUB · Oct 18, 2020

My bet that 15k interval has some sort of disclaimer, something about good conditions, short rides and so on. I have been doing 10,000 mile oil change intervals on my cars for years, at least the ones thar get driven a lot. My wife's car gets oil changed once a year or about 5,000 miles. Never had an oil related problem and even vehicles with well over 100,000 miles use very little oil.

As for the valve clearance check the K1600 has something like 20,000 miles recommended checks, but pretty much anyone I have talked to says they never need adjustment until 3 or 4 times those miles.

dieselyoda · Oct 18, 2020

Several ways that engines are starting to exceed traditional service intervals to some that have wow factor are:

Valves, followers and cams are getting away from case hardened to metals like stellite.

We are seeing vastly improved piston materials including molybedum and tungsten combinations.

Piston rings are rarely made of just chrome with a big return to cast steel and moly or tungsten faced rings. Super hard, not just coatings like nikisil but hardened with.

A lot more engines are using 5 valves, better scavenging and better surface contact dynamics.

The big push is in larger crankcase capacity, sometimes 3 times greater than normal to ensure maximum TBN life in the oil.

Omega Man · Oct 18, 2020

The big push is in larger crankcase capacity, sometimes 3 times greater than normal to ensure maximum TBN life in the oil.

The Tahoe I mentioned had 8 quart capacity. I think that is the largest capacity I have seen in V-8 gas engine.
OM

pglaves · Oct 18, 2020

Oh perfect! You can double the length of the oil change interval but it takes double the oil each fill. That sounds like a snake oil scam to me. Be careful what you wish for.

PoorUB · Oct 18, 2020

My 2019 Ford F150 takes 8.85 quarts, (isn't 9 quarts close enough?), Probably one reason I get 10,000 mile oil changes. But then I drive 1,400 miles per week too. An oil change every 7 weeks!

Years ago I drove a 2004 GMC van with a 4.7. I changed oil once a year, or about 12,000 miles. When I left that company that van had 140,000 miles on it and I did not add oil between changes, it would be about 3/4ths a quart low.

Anyname · Oct 18, 2020

PGlaves said:
Oh perfect! You can double the length of the oil change interval but it takes double the oil each fill. That sounds like a snake oil scam to me. Be careful what you wish for.

BMW cars have used lots of oil for years. My 94 530i used 8 quarts for a 3 liter V8, the 3 liter sixes use at least 6 quarts. My R1200R uses 4 quarts. The 100HP per liter engine in my present car doesn't require valve adjustments at all.

In cars, changes of synthetic oil have been spec'd at 15,000 miles for years. It sounds like Ducati has done the research and decided that their water cooled Multistrada motor is car like enough to have car like service intervals.

1957mpd · Oct 19, 2020

OldCamper said:
Ducati is about to announce a new v-4 engine with 60,000 mile valve adjust intervals...

This will be welcome news for Ducati riders. One of the downsides of the brand historically, at least with the twins, was the req'd frequency of and difficulty of performing valve adjustments and the cost of paying the shop techs for the service.

gregfeeler · Oct 19, 2020

Anyname said:
BMW cars have used lots of oil for years. My 94 530i used 8 quarts for a 3 liter V8, the 3 liter sixes use at least 6 quarts. My R1200R uses 4 quarts. The 100HP per liter engine in my present car doesn't require valve adjustments at all.

In cars, changes of synthetic oil have been spec'd at 15,000 miles for years. It sounds like Ducati has done the research and decided that their water cooled Multistrada motor is car like enough to have car like service intervals.

I have four classic K-bikes and the only one which uses any oil between changes is a 1990 K75 with about 66,000 miles on it. If I really ride it hard it will use some oil, and has since I bought it at about 42,000 miles. So, I have no idea of how it was broken in or cared for.

pglaves · Oct 19, 2020

GREGFEELER said:
I have four classic K-bikes and the only one which uses any oil between changes is a 1990 K75 with about 66,000 miles on it. If I really ride it hard it will use some oil, and has since I bought it at about 42,000 miles. So, I have no idea of how it was broken in or cared for.

Normally, upon reading this, I would recommend that that K75 be taken out and given an "Italian Tune-Up". However in this case I am fairly certain this remedy has been tried several times so I shall keep my mechanical expertise to myself in this case.

drneo66 · Oct 19, 2020

Anyname said:
BMW cars have used lots of oil for years. My 94 530i used 8 quarts for a 3 liter V8, the 3 liter sixes use at least 6 quarts. My R1200R uses 4 quarts. The 100HP per liter engine in my present car doesn't require valve adjustments at all.

And then you have some Porsche 911's with almost more oil on board (11.5 quarts) than fuel!

stooie · Oct 19, 2020

PGlaves said:
So what "technology" permits one engine to need an oil change at 15K miles and another engine to need an oil change at 6K miles, or 3K miles? How does the construction of an engine accomplish this?

Here's a few of my thoughts:

1. In addition to the improved piston and piston ring materials that Dieselyoda mentioned manufacturing tolerances are tighter than in olden days. Combined this leads to less blow-by of combustion gasses and thus less contamination of the oil.

2. The change from carburetors to fuel injection and improving fuel injection mapping results in less gas washing past the pistons, particularly on cold start up. Again, less oil contamination.

3. The use of synthetic oils and improved refining techniques of mineral oil reduce the amount of Viscosity Index Improvers (VII) required for an oil to meet specifications. To over generalize, oil doesn't wear out but VIIs do. They are long polymers that over time get chopped up as they pass through the oil pump, reducing their effectiveness. The viscosity of modern oils thus doesn't degrade as quickly as older oils used to.

4. I frequently send my used oil for lab analysis. I don't push oil replacement intervals but the lab analysis always indicates that I could go longer. In particular, the Total Base Number (TBN) after a year is usually excellent indicting that changing oil at a low mileage based on the 1-year requirement may not be necessary.

gregfeeler · Oct 19, 2020

PGlaves said:
Normally, upon reading this, I would recommend that that K75 be taken out and given an "Italian Tune-Up". However in this case I am fairly certain this remedy has been tried several times so I shall keep my mechanical expertise to myself in this case.

Paul, I think you know that one of the best reasons to ride a K-bike is that they beg to be ridden "with spirit". :brow

I suspect either prematurely worn valve guides, or rings that were not seated correctly when this bike was new. It is one of the strongest running K75s I've ever ridden, so I just make sure to check the oil level often. One of these days I will have the time to get more curious about the cause and will seek you out.

r0ckrat · Oct 19, 2020

stooie said:
Here's a few of my thoughts:

1. In addition to the improved piston and piston ring materials that Dieselyoda mentioned manufacturing tolerances are tighter than in olden days. Combined this leads to less blow-by of combustion gasses and thus less contamination of the oil.

2. The change from carburetors to fuel injection and improving fuel injection mapping results in less gas washing past the pistons, particularly on cold start up. Again, less oil contamination.

3. The use of synthetic oils and improved refining techniques of mineral oil reduce the amount of Viscosity Index Improvers (VII) required for an oil to meet specifications. To over generalize, oil doesn't wear out but VIIs do. They are long polymers that over time get chopped up as they pass through the oil pump, reducing their effectiveness. The viscosity of modern oils thus doesn't degrade as quickly as older oils used to.

4. I frequently send my used oil for lab analysis. I don't push oil replacement intervals but the lab analysis always indicates that I could go longer. In particular, the Total Base Number (TBN) after a year is usually excellent indicting that changing oil at a low mileage based on the 1-year requirement may not be necessary.

This.
The variance in suggested change intervals is also related to capacity, engine type, loads, etc.
Oil is mostly affected by heat and/or contamination. Cars can often get away with longer intervals because they have larger amounts of oil to use, the stresses placed on the oil are lower, and they don't have the do double-duty (trans/clutch are separated from the engine). That last is a major factor for most motorcycles. The added friction of lubricating both the engine and trans, and dealing with the high heat/friction of the clutch, combined with the small amount of oil available results in shorter change intervals.

riderr1150gsadv · Oct 19, 2020

Ask BMW owners with the VANOS system how their prolonged oil service interval worked out for them using that crappy Mobil1 oil from the factory.... :deal

Plenty of times we heard lifetime oil in gearboxes and transmissions (CVT) only to find out later that it leads to premature wear and the manufactures changed the intervals back to normal... YMMV

patm · Oct 19, 2020

OldCamper said:
According to advrider, Ducati is about to announce a new v-4 engine with 60,000 mile valve adjust intervals, and 15,000 mile oil change recommendation.

https://advrider.com/ducati-releases-new-v4-granturismo-engine/

Hopefully this technology will spill over to other brands.

I think someone goofed when they wrote their article. Ducati recommends 15,000 kilometers or 2 years oil change intervals. Not 15,000 miles.

https://www.ducati.com/ww/en/bikes/multistrada/v4-granturismo?tab=Tech#Theorem 3

2020-10-19 14_26_45-V4 Granturismo_ the new Ducati Engines.png

BC1100S · Oct 19, 2020

patm said:
I think someone goofed when they wrote their article. Ducati recommends 15,000 kilometers or 2 years oil change intervals. Not 15,000 miles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYoNL4g5Vg

60,000 mile valve adjust intervals?

Hanging in there

#13338

Member

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

Active member

Active member

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

#13338

Active member

Active member

Knight-Errant

Dances With Sheep

#13338

Active member

Member

Dances With Sheep

Active member

Well-known member

Member

Left Coast Rider

Similar threads