Right to repair, a larger movement than I thought.

We have a "Right to Repair" question coming up on election day here in Mass. I guess the movement is larger than I thought.

From CBS Sunday Morning-

Big electronics makers have made it difficult for consumers to fix their devices – from smartphones to computers – when they break down, or simply need a new battery. Correspondent David Pogue reports on the Right to Repair movement, a coalition of consumer advocates, digital rights activists and environmental groups that is fighting for laws that will help combat our throwaway culture.


In Mass we have a "Right to Repair" already but, from my understanding, this has to do with wireless/bluetooth connectivity....... but it's confusing-

Massachusetts Question 1, "Right to Repair Law" Vehicle Data Access Requirement Initiative (2020)

A "yes" vote supports requiring manufacturers that sell vehicles with telematics systems in Massachusetts to equip them with a standardized open data platform beginning with model year 2022 that vehicle owners and independent repair facilities may access to retrieve mechanical data and run diagnostics through a mobile-based application.

A "no" vote opposes requiring vehicles beginning with model year 2022 to be equipped with a standardized open data platform that vehicle owners and independent repair facilities may access to retrieve mechanical data and run diagnostics through a mobile-based application, thereby maintaining that vehicle owners and independent repair facilities may access mechanical and diagnostic data through a personal computer.

I pretty much do everything myself and am not a big fan of taking things to a dealer..... Even at my age I like to figure out things so I like access to trouble codes and diagnostic info.

There is some compelling reasons to allow vehicle data to be accessed so an owner, or shop, to continue to do their (own) repairs- if they want.

Considering the "scare" tactics that seem to being used by "big auto", I think that BA is concerned about their revenue stream- mostly.

It will be interesting to watch.

OM

+1, I hope the MA measure passes and spreads. The cost of dealer-only repairs on equipment of all kinds is getting beyond onerous. Those of us who like to diagnose and repair our own devices of any type, or select our own choice of repair facility or non-dealer technician, need to be supporting the movement IMHO.

Best,
DeVern

I like the idea of right to repair, but it's going to be challenging to make it meaningful. Just ask any LC Boxer owner that's experienced a Limp Mode event with no known mechanical or electrical failure. The other place I see an issue is our weekly/monthly update culture which periodically renders cellphones and PC's useless or diminished for a few update cycles.

36654 said:

I like the idea of right to repair, but it's going to be challenging to make it meaningful. Just ask any LC Boxer owner that's experienced a Limp Mode event with no known mechanical or electrical failure. The other place I see an issue is our weekly/monthly update culture which periodically renders cellphones and PC's useless or diminished for a few update cycles.

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Can you not drag this thread off course?
OM

This is a very important movement. Without meaningful Right To Repair laws the days of independent repair shops and user-service/repair are over. That impacts everyone when their equipment is relatively new (as new enough to be within a vehicle dealer's service age range), but will be especially important once the dealer no longer works on something "that old".

GREGFEELER said:

This is a very important movement. Without meaningful Right To Repair laws the days of independent repair shops and user-service/repair are over. That impacts everyone which their equipment is relatively new (as new enough to be within a vehicle dealer's service age range), but will be especially important once the dealer no longer works on something "that old".

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The “That Old” point is a good one
OM

FWIW, MA has had a "Right to Repair" law for eight years. The latest iteration of that law, which would take effect if passed by the voters, is to give independent repair facilities access to the telematic transmissions from modern vehicles.

ExGMan said:

FWIW, MA has had a "Right to Repair" law for eight years. The latest iteration of that law, which would take effect if passed by the voters, is to give independent repair facilities access to the telematic transmissions from modern vehicles.

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More info on Telematic (radio) transmission data here-

https://www.autocare.org/telematics/

From that link, it would seem if you had one of those insurance company “safe driver” gizmos installed in the OBD port, an owner may be involved.

OM

Looks like this was approved by the voters by a 75-25 margin. Hope for the best.
OM

It will be interesting to see how implementation goes. Keep us informed, please. If enough states get on board then it will impact all of us. If the manufacturers have to make the data available to Massachusetts then they can hardly keep it from Montana. I suspect the next steps will be dragging of feet and lawsuits.

Omega Man said:

Looks like this was approved by the voters by a 75-25 margin. Hope for the best.
OM

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This is very good news! Thanks for the update.

I think that there is something bigger going on.... or- it’s bigger than I imagined. Could be Kevin is on to something-

Amid auto industry battle, Question 1 is the most ...
2 days ago — With nearly $43 million spent so far, the battle has become the ... Question 1 is the most expensive ballot initiative in Mass. history ...

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https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/11...sive-ballot-initiative-massachusetts-history/

OM

The proposal described goes beyond the original definition of right to repair.

Originally, this was simply to protect and encourage independent repair shops and persons. Meaning technical information had to be shared with them and spare parts and special tools made available. It didn't absolve anyone from poor work being a question when discussing factory warranty, of course.

The proposal seems instead to address basic designs and I'd be surprised to find in the long run any court agreeing with preventing production of unrepairable (by anybody) things. This concept is surviving quite nicely in the BMW world, in fact, where BMW and in the latter case the whole industry has termed Integrated ABS units and tire pressure sensors unrepairable. This means spare parts are not provided and factory technician training does not cover repairing these items. They are safety items of course and this is the most conservative approach. I noted a similar example on a Mercedes forum recently ... a poster queried where he could obtain replacement pistons for a rear brake caliper. One respondent stated go to dealer, they probably have 50. I checked the Mercedes parts system and there are no parts available, but you could purchase a Mercedes rebuilt complete caliper. Safety liability again.

RtR: A crack in the wall or an end run?

Reuters reports a right to repair deal being struck between the American Farm Bureau and John Deere, with Deere agreeing to provide service info and technology to independent shops:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/com...ng-farmers-right-repair-equipment-2023-01-08/

Not sure if this is the beginning of a new trend, or just an arrangement of convenience designed to get one of the major agitators out of play.

Best,
DeVern

I wonder if Caterpillar will follow? To check CAT's electronics one needs a laptop with the program and a special dongle to bring the inner workings to light.
It seems that so many raised a ruckus on the CanAm forums (customers) about accessing the BUDDS system on CanAm products that it's now available on Amazon. Rather pricy but perhaps satisfied three aspects of the problem.
OM

Well, looks like tomorrow is the day-

June first 2023 there will be some kind of enforcement on Right to Repair in Massachusetts.

https://www.wwlp.com/news/state-politics/massachusetts-right-to-repair-law-to-be-implemented-june-1/

What it actually means, I don’t know. There are a lot of little battles in a war.

OM

I admit that I haven’t read this entire thread, but I wonder how this will affect Jaguar owners. I have a 2009 XK, and use a very competent Indy mechanic for most service. However, anything that is computer related, needs to be addressed by a franchise LRJ dealer, because they have proprietary software.

Will this new law, allow my Indy guy to tap into the Jaguar software?

ksdcr said:

I admit that I haven’t read this entire thread, but I wonder how this will affect Jaguar owners. I have a 2009 XK, and use a very competent Indy mechanic for most service. However, anything that is computer related, needs to be addressed by a franchise LRJ dealer, because they have proprietary software.

Will this new law, allow my Indy guy to tap into the Jaguar software?

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I think it’s supposed to but considering the fight that was put up in opposition to RTR, I imagine the information will be provided at a snail’s pace.
Sounds like you’re Indy mechanic will be up on what is really going on.
OM

Right to repair is a large movement and an important issue in my opinion. As owners of very expensive vehicles we consumers should have more choice where to take our investments and have them serviced, we should not be fooled by manufacturers specious arguments about the special nature of the product that ONLY a factory trained tech can work on it, good technicians are everywhere. More competition will result in better pricing for the consumer and more competition will force dealers to up their repair game. But to do this independent technicians MUST have access to to factory service information and specialty tools to be effective.

Im rather surprised there is not a consensus here on the forum for right to repair given the large number of complaints leveled against dealer technicians. I've written all my representatives and strongly urged them to support this issue. I like to tinker on my bikes and I like to collect new tools and learn new techniques. I have accomplished some major repairs on my 2011 R bike because I had access to a service manual. I cannot do this on my '21 1250 because BMW will not release a manual or give me reasonably priced access to online service data. Hoping things will change by the time I retire.

jandhumphreyme said:

I'm rather surprised there is not a consensus here on the forum for right to repair given the large number of complaints leveled against dealer technicians.

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From what I've read, the lack of consensus here regarding the right to repair is around what the MOA's should do about it and not on the right to repair. I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion on what the MOA should do about protecting the right to repair. That should be saved for a separate thread.