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17 R1200RT Ilium crash bars contact rear swing arm

I have sent my bar mount to Ilium for rework/replacement

After a couple of back and forth emails with John, the owner of Ilium, he told me to ship the mount back for rework/replacement. I did so today. Unfortunately he is going on vacation today through August 22nd. I feel badly that I probably screwed up the guy's vacation, but I suppose that cannot be helped. His email auto reply late today said to contact Ron at 888-431-6669, or email ron@iliumworks.com. Probably a good idea to cc john@iliumworks.com too on anything you send as he is filling in while John is on vacation. If you send a photo of your swingarm rub mark I am sure they will get the picture, but probably you should talk to them before returning anything.

I am thinking now that they need to re-engineer this part to be further out from the frame and far away from the swingarm. I suppose my bracket could be rebent but that is way beyond any tools I have. I tried a 1/16" spacer to move it out and that didn't work, and grinding on the mount is just a guess at how far up the swingarm can go, which may or may not work. I think it is also likely that the swingarm travel will increase as the suspension wears and probably a little different from bike to bike. I'm not sure but I don't think there is anything limiting suspension travel beyond the shock and spring, is there?

I'm not thinking this is going to be solved very quickly.
 
AjaxTheDog said:
After a couple of back and forth emails with John, the owner of Ilium, he told me to ship the mount back for rework/replacement. I did so today. Unfortunately he is going on vacation today through August 22nd. I feel badly that I probably screwed up the guy's vacation, but I suppose that cannot be helped. His email auto reply late today said to contact Ron at 888-431-6669, or email ron@iliumworks.com. Probably a good idea to cc john@iliumworks.com too on anything you send as he is filling in while John is on vacation. If you send a photo of your swingarm rub mark I am sure they will get the picture, but probably you should talk to them before returning anything.

I am thinking now that they need to re-engineer this part to be further out from the frame and far away from the swingarm. I suppose my bracket could be rebent but that is way beyond any tools I have. I tried a 1/16" spacer to move it out and that didn't work, and grinding on the mount is just a guess at how far up the swingarm can go, which may or may not work. I think it is also likely that the swingarm travel will increase as the suspension wears and probably a little different from bike to bike. I'm not sure but I don't think there is anything limiting suspension travel beyond the shock and spring, is there?

I'm not thinking this is going to be solved very quickly.
Click to expand...

Bill - How are you compressing the rear to verify clearance? How did you determine that the spacer didn't work? I was able to communicate with Ron today and mine is still in the original configuration and I just want to send him a few pictures of my bike. I would love to get one with it actually touching.

David
 
ntxbmwguy2018 said:
Bill - How are you compressing the rear to verify clearance? How did you determine that the spacer didn't work? I was able to communicate with Ron today and mine is still in the original configuration and I just want to send him a few pictures of my bike. I would love to get one with it actually touching.

David
Click to expand...

One way would be to take it to a shop with a lift, and strap it down to the lift with the front in the wheel chock. As long as you have a friendly shop...
 
ntxbmwguy2018 said:
Bill - How are you compressing the rear to verify clearance? How did you determine that the spacer didn't work? I was able to communicate with Ron today and mine is still in the original configuration and I just want to send him a few pictures of my bike. I would love to get one with it actually touching.

David
Click to expand...

David, I have not done anything to compress the rear, and I'd be a little afraid of trusting straps not to break the luggage rack if cranked down that hard. Isn't there a weight limit for a topcase on the rack of 22kg or so? There is no way I am aware of to measure how much weight/force is being applied so I don't think I want to risk that. I suppose you could load your topcase and find a passenger to sit on the bike, but that still wouldn't have the same compression you'd get with that load and a bump or dip in the road while riding. I did drop a plumb line from the scar straight up with the bike on the center stand and it matched the rub spot inside the bracket, so I am certain that is the cause.

The spacer didn't work. When I first noticed the scar, I contacted Ilium and they told me that that could be a solution and they suggested two 8mm washers. I tried them but IMO they didn't offer the same connection strength as the original setup. I could wiggle the bars easily. So I made and installed a 1/16 aluminum bar stock spacer for a thicker and stronger connection. I cleaned up the scar and thought it was fixed but after a while the scar came back, a little further up the swingarm which makes sense in terms of geometry if you think about it. Try some washers and I think you'll come to the same conclusion. The bracket also starts the rear peg set rubbing on the bodywork as you move it outward, and probably will eventually run a scar into that.

I'm not thinking at this point with several people having the same problem with these bars that there is anything you need to prove further, and I am pretty sure Ilium will come to the same conclusion if they haven't already. They seem like a well intentioned and fair company and if they expect to sell any more of these bars this has to be rectified.
 
I was thinking straps on the sub-frame or rear pegs, not the luggage rack... Or even over the rear seat.
 
It seems that the rubbing occurs at the lower limit of suspension travel. A few minutes on the bench grinder resulted in this:

XxogWr1.jpg

YcJy8Td.jpg


I covered the abraded area on the shaft housing with tape. I'll try all the various suspension settings and see what happens. I would encourage all who have noticed this issue to contact Ilium.
 
AjaxTheDog said:
David, I have not done anything to compress the rear, and I'd be a little afraid of trusting straps not to break the luggage rack if cranked down that hard. Isn't there a weight limit for a topcase on the rack of 22kg or so? There is no way I am aware of to measure how much weight/force is being applied so I don't think I want to risk that. I suppose you could load your topcase and find a passenger to sit on the bike, but that still wouldn't have the same compression you'd get with that load and a bump or dip in the road while riding. I did drop a plumb line from the scar straight up with the bike on the center stand and it matched the rub spot inside the bracket, so I am certain that is the cause.

The spacer didn't work. When I first noticed the scar, I contacted Ilium and they told me that that could be a solution and they suggested two 8mm washers. I tried them but IMO they didn't offer the same connection strength as the original setup. I could wiggle the bars easily. So I made and installed a 1/16 aluminum bar stock spacer for a thicker and stronger connection. I cleaned up the scar and thought it was fixed but after a while the scar came back, a little further up the swingarm which makes sense in terms of geometry if you think about it. Try some washers and I think you'll come to the same conclusion. The bracket also starts the rear peg set rubbing on the bodywork as you move it outward, and probably will eventually run a scar into that.

I'm not thinking at this point with several people having the same problem with these bars that there is anything you need to prove further, and I am pretty sure Ilium will come to the same conclusion if they haven't already. They seem like a well intentioned and fair company and if they expect to sell any more of these bars this has to be rectified.
Click to expand...

Bill - Thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree. I have found Ilium to be a very reputable company as well. Ron was asking me for some pictures to help document and I have never compressed the suspension like that.
That bench grinder method looks like a great idea, but I'm with Bill and give Ilium's R&D team some time to look into this.

DavidMeasurement (2).jpg
 
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The thing that drew me to the Ilium rear bars was the easy and simple fitment. My rear bars installed easy and clean.

Reading this thread and the similar thread over in the Luxury Touring site I went out and checked mine in detail with a flashlight and no marks whatsoever so far. But I am very interested in the fix they come up with. I love these bars and how they do not negatively impact the look of the bike.

I had heard about fitment issues with the front bars so I passed on them.
 
gsinnc said:
The thing that drew me to the Ilium rear bars was the easy and simple fitment. My rear bars installed easy and clean.

Reading this thread and the similar thread over in the Luxury Touring site I went out and checked mine in detail with a flashlight and no marks whatsoever so far. But I am very interested in the fix they come up with. I love these bars and how they do not negatively impact the look of the bike.

I had heard about fitment issues with the front bars so I passed on them.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by fitment issue?
I have no fitment issue with the front bars
 
Dann said:
What do you mean by fitment issue?
I have no fitment issue with the front bars
Click to expand...

I had read a couple posts of guys complaining about issues with front bars potentially rubbing. Not sure where they were rubbing but it was a couple years back so I passed on them.
 
I have a 2018 R1200RTW with the Illium front and rear crash bars installed. I looked, but did not see any evidence of the rear crash bar mount contacting the swing arm. I did not have any fitment issues.
 
AjaxTheDog said:
After a couple of back and forth emails with John, the owner of Ilium, he told me to ship the mount back for rework/replacement. ... email ron@iliumworks.com. Probably a good idea to cc john@iliumworks.com ....
Click to expand...

I sent email with an image of the rub mark on my swingarm. I think it will help them to see several examples, so that they can assess whether this is a conceptual design problem, or maybe just a manufacturing tolerance problem.
 
robsryder said:
I have a 2018 R1200RTW with the Illium front and rear crash bars installed. I looked, but did not see any evidence of the rear crash bar mount contacting the swing arm. I did not have any fitment issues.
Click to expand...

I guess some people ride on better roads than others ;)
 
dlong0609 said:
Although it appears that there is more than enough clearance between the bracket and drive shaft housing when viewed from behind or below, I am more convinced that AjaxTheDog is correct. I dropped plumb lines from the spots potentially in conflict, and the lines converge. I tried, but was unable to take a meaningful photo. I'm now questioning my recollection that the mark was present before the bars were installed. I ride with the suspension in the soft position 90% of the time. I seldom ride two up, but on the few rides I have done with my wife, the load approaches 380 lbs. Perhaps that explains why the mark is not present on bikes carrying less load.

Moving the bracket outboard a bit should resolve the problem, but I'm reluctant to do that. I'm already dragging the bar in the stock position. I may remove the bracket and relieve the lower edge a bit with a dremel tool. It would not be necessaary to remove a great deal of material to eliminate the conflict without weakening the bracket. I'm curious to learn how Ilium responds.

h9lo7kP.jpg
Click to expand...

Looking at your picture, the scrape/damage is on the outside of the left bar. That damage looks like it was caused by either a tip over or contact with something (too close drive by) causing the mounting plate to get bent.
I suspect if you replace the left rear bar and/or mounting plate your problem is fixed
 
There is a similar mark on the R side. There have been no tipovers, encounters with walls, guard rails, or other vehicles. A rider following me over a mountain road with tight corners alerted me that it appeared the bars were making contact with the road surface. I had not noticed the scrapes before that. It may not be obvious in the photo, but you really have to look upward at the lower corner of the bar to see the marks. The mounting plate is 1/4" steel. Lots of things attached to it would become bent or damaged before the plate itself.
 
dlong0609 said:
There is a similar mark on the R side. There have been no tipovers, encounters with walls, guard rails, or other vehicles. A rider following me over a mountain road with tight corners alerted me that it appeared the bars were making contact with the road surface. I had not noticed the scrapes before that. It may not be obvious in the photo, but you really have to look upward at the lower corner of the bar to see the marks. The mounting plate is 1/4" steel. Lots of things attached to it would become bent or damaged before the plate itself.
Click to expand...

If true it is obvious it is defective and should be sent back to Illium.
 
dlong0609 said:
There is a similar mark on the R side. There have been no tipovers, encounters with walls, guard rails, or other vehicles. A rider following me over a mountain road with tight corners alerted me that it appeared the bars were making contact with the road surface. I had not noticed the scrapes before that. It may not be obvious in the photo, but you really have to look upward at the lower corner of the bar to see the marks. The mounting plate is 1/4" steel. Lots of things attached to it would become bent or damaged before the plate itself.
Click to expand...

"A rider following me over a mountain road with tight corners alerted me that it appeared the bars were making contact with the road surface." That's about the most destructive contact there is. Lucky it did't just rip off.
"The mounting plate is 1/4" steel. Lots of things attached to it would become bent or damaged before the plate itself." Like the aluminum frame it's mounted to??
The cause is the scrape,(600lbs of bike at at least 60mph to cause this much of a lean equals untold tons of force when it hits!!!) regardless of whether you bent the mounting plate or the frame...
 
wemi said:
600lbs of bike at at least 60mph to cause this much of a lean equals untold tons of force when it hits!!!
Click to expand...

I didn't drop the bike off a bridge. People can drag all kinds of things when cornering...boots, footpegs, floorboards, side cases, center stands, even Ilium rear bars, with only skimming contact with the pavement. Some have dragged front bars, using systems other than Ilium. None of these result in tons of force being applied to anything. That said, I do pay more attention to lean angle and corner speed since becoming aware.

I only raised the issue in this thread as a warning that any modification of the mounting system that moves the bars further outboard (such as adding spacers) may cause more contact when cornering, and not to imply that the contact had somehow bent the mounting plate. Having handled it, I doubt I could bend it with a vice and 5lb hammer.

I've been in touch with John at Ilium, who is working on a solution. This is not a safety issue in my opinion, and I plan to leave the bars on and keep riding, but maybe not in my preferred "soft" setting.
 
wemi said:
The cause is the scrape,(600lbs of bike at at least 60mph to cause this much of a lean equals untold tons of force when it hits!!!) regardless of whether you bent the mounting plate or the frame...
Click to expand...
I have a similar mark on my swingarm, although not as drastic, on my 2018. The bike has never been tipped over, or scraped the bar while cornering. I have never ridden two up and always have my preload set at "with luggage" or "with passenger" when loaded and the top box attached. My weight is under 200lbs with gear. I have sent photos to Ilumi and received notification that " they're working on it".
 
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