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Thread: Help for a Nervous Rider

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Unfortunately or fortunately the image is "silly".
    Couldn't agree with you more on that
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Unfortunately or fortunately the image is "silly".
    I was doing missions in Bosnia in 2002. As a recon helo pilot, I found the French special forces compromising our recon objectives... (long story for another day). I knew they were French special forces because I could see their green “pizza” beret from a mile away in my helicopter. I thought, “how silly” why would anyone wear such a gaudy, silly hat?

    As it turns out, they loved that beret; would literally (and I mean literally in the literal since) die protecting the honor of that gaudy “beret”.

    What I learned; not only is beauty in the eye of the beholder, but we are defined by our “self image”. Our self image is formed by our interactions with people, family, tribes, communities, nations. Whether we want to believe it or not, we are defined by how other people see us, and our perception of how we “think” they see us. Motorcycle riders routinely kill themselves attempting to be cool, desperate to fit in. We see shades of the same with all the virtue signaling here on the forums.

    Why am I taking the time to make a fine point of this... here? It is particularly relevant to our club. New club members or potential club members whose beret (or ape hangers) may seem silly to us, will be rebuffed by our collective ambivalence, and seek acceptance in other clubs, groups... tribes if you will, and may still belong to those groups, when they've traded the ape hangers for a beemer, continuing to avoid the club that pointed out how silly they looked 10 years ago.

    The old guard’s acceptance of the replacements is, and always will be, the bedrock cornerstone of the longevity of any organization.
    Last edited by rangerreece; 08-19-2020 at 04:31 PM.
    R. Reece Mullins Ebony R1200RT (Gretchen)
    MOA # 143779
    MOA Charter Club #5 #364 #100
    BMW MOA Vice President

  3. #63
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerreece View Post
    I was doing missions in Bosnia in 2002. As a recon helo pilot, I found the French special forces compromising our recon objectives... (long story for another day). I knew they were French special forces because I could see their green “pizza” beret from a mile away in my helicopter. I thought, “how silly” why would anyone where such a gaudy, silly hat?

    As it turns out, they loved that beret; would literally (and I mean literally in the literal since) die protecting the honor of that gaudy “beret”.

    What I learned; not only is beauty in the eye of the beholder, but we are defined by our “self image”. Our self image is formed by our interactions with people, family, tribes, communities, nations. Whether we want to believe it or not, we are defined by how other people see us, and our perception of how we “think” they see us. Motorcycle riders routinely kill themselves attempting to be cool, desperate to fit in. We see shades of the same with all the virtue signaling here on the forums.

    Why am I taking the time to make a fine point of this... here? It is particularly relevant to our club. New club members or potential club members whose beret (or ape hangers) may seem silly to us, will be rebuffed by our collective ambivalence, and seek acceptance in other clubs, groups... tribes if you will, and may still belong to those groups, when they've traded the ape hangers for a beemer, continuing to avoid the club that pointed out how silly they looked 10 years ago.

    The old guard’s acceptance of the replacements is, and always will be, the bedrock cornerstone of the longevity of any organization.
    +1
    I find the bashing of other riders bikes, style, habits rather small. Try to remember that many in the MOA have a Harley as their second bike.
    Gary
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
    Mod Squad
    2009 F800GS 1994 TW200

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    +1
    I find the bashing of other riders bikes, style, habits rather small. Try to remember that many in the MOA have a Harley as their second bike.
    Gary
    Saying that I think something is silly is hardly bashing. I am sorry anybody is so sensitive. We were after all talking about motorcycle handling; ie safety. I am reminded of the letter to the editor in an American cruiser style magazine wherein the BMW rider wrote, "We are a lot alike except you dress like pirates and we dress like armadillos."
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Saying that I think something is silly is hardly bashing. I am sorry anybody is so sensitive. We were after all talking about motorcycle handling; ie safety. I am reminded of the letter to the editor in an American cruiser style magazine wherein the BMW rider wrote, "We are a lot alike except you dress like pirates and we dress like armadillos."
    I would always remind my bud with the apes, when he complained he couldn't keep up on the twistie mountain roads, but it's all about the ride, right? Got no problem with whatever people decide to ride, but you don't see apes on bikes that have thin chicken strips either.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Saying that I think something is silly is hardly bashing.
    No one here is “so” sensitive... we are just trying to figure a few things out. For example, if I said, “letting your wife ride around wearing an all leather, red matching riding suit, with a red bike was “silly” would it sting? Would it be bashing? If Vonie were to say it, it would be a self deprecating, tongue and cheek, form of humor. The connotative interpretation of what is said lies in the ears of the receiver, not the sender.

    This was my original point, we don’t know, nor do we get to decide how other people perceive us. What we may consider humorous or kidding, ribbing, or banter, others may interpret otherwise... and really, isn’t all forms of targeted banter passive aggressive in nature?

    People may say, “what was said doesn’t affect me” as a means of deflection, but this doesn’t explain the extreme risks they are willingly to take to conform to a group, indicating, how they are perceived by others as being far more relevant than even they are willing to admit. Armed with this knowledge, as the old guard, how can we use it to our collective benifit as a club and group of riders? I will offer; start by being mindful of what we say publicly, how we act, body language, maybe even changing how we think of others in an effort to reach out and accept others whose riding styles and lifestyles may be different than ours... for the moment.
    Last edited by rangerreece; 08-19-2020 at 05:11 PM.
    R. Reece Mullins Ebony R1200RT (Gretchen)
    MOA # 143779
    MOA Charter Club #5 #364 #100
    BMW MOA Vice President

  7. #67
    Registered User Rinty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerreece View Post
    What I learned; not only is beauty in the eye of the beholder, but we are defined by our “self image”. Our self image is formed by our interactions with people, family, tribes, communities, nations. Whether we want to believe it or not, we are defined by how other people see us, and our perception of how we “think” they see us. Motorcycle riders routinely kill themselves attempting to be cool, desperate to fit in. We see shades of the same with all the virtue signaling here on the forums.
    Very profound, Reece.

    I once asked a psychologist friend why riders like to bash other riders and their bikes. She said that, like many psychological issues, it comes down to self esteem.

    At 72, I like to think that I'm in a stage of my life where I'm least concerned about what others think about me. And yet there are still certain things that I won't wear.
    Rinty

  8. #68
    As we get older and, more importantly, find ourselves in a loving committed, long-term relationship, I think our need to be accepted by the collective group diminishes, as our psycho-social needs are being met. I say diminishes, because, like you pointed out, there may always be a need to be excepted by the “group” even if the need is not as pronounced as it was when we were young and single.

    As I am middle aged, surrounded by middle aged ego driven pilots at work, I often see a pilot recently single drastically change their behavior. It would seem their need to be accepted and relevant, is reprioritized and placed on the top shelf.
    R. Reece Mullins Ebony R1200RT (Gretchen)
    MOA # 143779
    MOA Charter Club #5 #364 #100
    BMW MOA Vice President

  9. #69
    Well, middle aged if I lived to be 106... I guess I’m going to have to accept the fact that I’m “over the hill”. Ironic, considering the points I’ve been making. Looks like I am just as human as the rest of us.
    R. Reece Mullins Ebony R1200RT (Gretchen)
    MOA # 143779
    MOA Charter Club #5 #364 #100
    BMW MOA Vice President

  10. #70
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Saying that I think something is silly is hardly bashing. I am sorry anybody is so sensitive. We were after all talking about motorcycle handling; ie safety. I am reminded of the letter to the editor in an American cruiser style magazine wherein the BMW rider wrote, "We are a lot alike except you dress like pirates and we dress like armadillos."
    I guess I would think it was more interesting if I could watch the “bashing” done on a face to face kinda deal
    I figure there is around 700 or so visitors per day (not members) that are reading this sorta thing. Any activity that devolves into factions is much easier to dissolve by “others” that see no need for the activities existence.
    I hope the Harley group doesn’t spend time kicking the Power Rangers
    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
    Mod Squad
    2009 F800GS 1994 TW200

  11. #71
    OK I surrender. Ape hangers are just the perfect way to steer a motorcycle. Anybody who thinks otherwise is a silly ninny. BMW, Honda, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi, Suzuki, Laverda, Ducati, Indian, Harley Davidson, Kymco and others don't know anything about motorcycle engineering and design.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  12. #72
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    OK I surrender. Ape hangers are just the perfect way to steer a motorcycle. Anybody who thinks otherwise is a silly ninny. BMW, Honda, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi, Suzuki, Laverda, Ducati, Indian, Harley Davidson, Kymco and others don't know anything about motorcycle engineering and design.
    A few years ago, I decided to see how sharp my table saw blade was. Unfortunately, I didn't turn off the power and ended up in the emergency room with one arm raised above my shoulder. You know, to stop the bleeding. Eventually, that arm got kinda numb and really tired, just like working on overhead lighting fixtures. Eventually, a nurse took pity on me and reminded me of the miracle known as coagulation and told me to put my arm down. I was grateful, holding your arm up in the air continuously was tiring.

    So, even before we get to the topic of silly, the high altitude handgrip arrangement (HAHA) could compromise the rider's arm strength and control sensitivity due to reduced blood flow. In addition, HAHA may result in the rider's arms being fully extended and incapable of flexing to steer the motorcycle. In summary, HAHA appears to be a questionable choice for safe motorcycle operation.
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    OK I surrender. Ape hangers are just the perfect way to steer a motorcycle. Anybody who thinks otherwise is a silly ninny. BMW, Honda, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi, Suzuki, Laverda, Ducati, Indian, Harley Davidson, Kymco and others don't know anything about motorcycle engineering and design.

    Ok Paul, just insult everyone while you are at it!
    From the only real Fargo, ND!

  14. #74
    Registered User Rinty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerreece View Post
    Well, middle aged if I lived to be 106... I guess I’m going to have to accept the fact that I’m “over the hill”...
    Well, at 53, you're just getting warmed up.
    Rinty

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