I doubt it will happen, but if the rumored 700-800cc Africa Twin has a shaft drive, boy that would make it just about the perfect bike in my book. Meanwhile, chains it is, and it’s not a bad compromise at all.
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Chain drive vs shaft or belt drive
- Thread starter lstayner
- Start date
I doubt it will happen, but if the rumored 700-800cc Africa Twin has a shaft drive, boy that would make it just about the perfect bike in my book. Meanwhile, chains it is, and it’s not a bad compromise at all.
That was a belt drive sprocket, wasn't it?
gtrider
52184
On the S, ST, and R, yes. But IIRC early F800GS bikes had the issue as well.
Best,
DeVern
MCMXCIVRS
More toys than space
The F800GS had some issues with rear bearings in the hub. Seemed more of a bearing quality issue, but some felt there was a problem with some hubs being too tight a fit for the bearings.
On my F800GS there was a recall on the chain. I think it was a suspect quality issue that was resolved by the dealer at no charge.
I had an experience with bearings on the rear of the F800GS, documented in the F-Twin index-
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?73076-Rear-wheel-bearings-on-a-F800GS
That experience let me realize that “sealed” bearings was not what I thought.
OM
guenner
Member
My experience with drive shafts and chains
I had a R100GS for 30 years. I had to replace the drive shaft about every 70k miles. Last time the price for the shaft was $730. Took me about 3 hours to complete the work.
For my F700GS I replaced the chain at 19k miles at $185 for the changin+sprockets. Takes me about 1 hour to complete the work.
In both cases I did the work myself. The price difference for the parts over 70k miles: $50 more for the shaft.
But it was really nice to have nothing else to do with the shaft until next time. Especially coming home from a dirty dirt ride!
I give the chain a cleaning/lubrication at least every 1k miles. It takes only 20 minutes but it's always a bit messy.
Make a bike with an 650-800cc motor and and a drive shaft and I buy it in an instant. BMW had done it in the past!
/Guenther
I had a R100GS for 30 years. I had to replace the drive shaft about every 70k miles. Last time the price for the shaft was $730. Took me about 3 hours to complete the work.
For my F700GS I replaced the chain at 19k miles at $185 for the changin+sprockets. Takes me about 1 hour to complete the work.
In both cases I did the work myself. The price difference for the parts over 70k miles: $50 more for the shaft.
But it was really nice to have nothing else to do with the shaft until next time. Especially coming home from a dirty dirt ride!
I give the chain a cleaning/lubrication at least every 1k miles. It takes only 20 minutes but it's always a bit messy.
Make a bike with an 650-800cc motor and and a drive shaft and I buy it in an instant. BMW had done it in the past!
/Guenther
Last edited:
patm
Member
Well, he's right if you're talking about some BMWs, mostly '06 -'08 but if the question was asked to other brands services managers they'd answer what major service?
My three last bikes, different brands, had shafts and final drives and none required more that yearly fluid replacement. While this is only anecdotal, you rarely hear of Kawasakis, Hondas or Yamahas having issues with their final drives.
To answer the OP, chains are fine on modern bikes. It's just a little more regular maintenance and a replacement every 20, 30K km. No big deal.
Like everything else, a bike's design is a compromise. If the bike is to be sold at a certain price range, a shaft drive means higher parts cost for a final drive. The designers would have to reduce costs elsewhere or increase the sales price.
36654
New member
My "First had money" years was in the early 1980s when all the Japanese brands were offering shaft drive options for folks that wanted to tour on their bikes. Getting rid of the chain drive was a no-brainer at that time. BMW had several decades of proven reliability to demonstrate viability of this approach.
Eventually, in the lean motorcycle market years of the late 80s and early 90s, the Japanese trimmed their mid-weight offerings and those shaft drive models disappeared to history. In the early 90s, with the R259 engine, BMW introduced the next gen shaft drive (paralever) with the mid-shaft u-joint to minimize the on/off throttle rear drive reaction (shaft jacking). At sometime in the 00s, "final drive failure" seemed to be the primary focus of forum. Some owners experienced it within 10K, others after 100K or more. What was the cause and which years were worse than others are topics of great debate. In my opinion, considering the ever increasing HP levels and the outsourcing of parts to the lowest cost suppliers ... Quality Control has failed to match performance level on several occasions.
With that being said......I'll stay with the shaft drive. If and when it isn't available, I'll consider all available alternatives.
Eventually, in the lean motorcycle market years of the late 80s and early 90s, the Japanese trimmed their mid-weight offerings and those shaft drive models disappeared to history. In the early 90s, with the R259 engine, BMW introduced the next gen shaft drive (paralever) with the mid-shaft u-joint to minimize the on/off throttle rear drive reaction (shaft jacking). At sometime in the 00s, "final drive failure" seemed to be the primary focus of forum. Some owners experienced it within 10K, others after 100K or more. What was the cause and which years were worse than others are topics of great debate. In my opinion, considering the ever increasing HP levels and the outsourcing of parts to the lowest cost suppliers ... Quality Control has failed to match performance level on several occasions.
With that being said......I'll stay with the shaft drive. If and when it isn't available, I'll consider all available alternatives.
ncpbmw1953
Member
Having experienced this elegant FD solution...
I put 23K miles on a '13 F800GT with its elegant belt FD. It was quiet, reliable, clean & more efficient than shaft driven designs. Besides looking kind of cool I find the fact the front & rear sprockets (as w/ chains) are all turning in the same plane as the crankshaft is just a very good thing compared to splines, u-joints and 90 degree changes of direction to just be the picture of inelegance and clunkines, and indeed my '16 RT does clunk here and there! I loved the ZERO maintanence for the belt drive. Plus one gets a warning when the belt is beginning to give up the ghost as you will see hairline cracks in the some of the teeth in the belt if you look now and again. I think the risk of a hard rear-wheel lock up due to a catastophic failure is greater in shafts than belts. They aren't great for off-road but my dream replacement for my RT as I age, besides losing 100lbs, would indeed be incorporating a belt drive, and to lose 100lbs and be 100% capable as a Sport Tourer w/ full on tech, performance AND comfort you would need the belt to help meet weight and power concerns.
I put 23K miles on a '13 F800GT with its elegant belt FD. It was quiet, reliable, clean & more efficient than shaft driven designs. Besides looking kind of cool I find the fact the front & rear sprockets (as w/ chains) are all turning in the same plane as the crankshaft is just a very good thing compared to splines, u-joints and 90 degree changes of direction to just be the picture of inelegance and clunkines, and indeed my '16 RT does clunk here and there! I loved the ZERO maintanence for the belt drive. Plus one gets a warning when the belt is beginning to give up the ghost as you will see hairline cracks in the some of the teeth in the belt if you look now and again. I think the risk of a hard rear-wheel lock up due to a catastophic failure is greater in shafts than belts. They aren't great for off-road but my dream replacement for my RT as I age, besides losing 100lbs, would indeed be incorporating a belt drive, and to lose 100lbs and be 100% capable as a Sport Tourer w/ full on tech, performance AND comfort you would need the belt to help meet weight and power concerns.
36654
New member
I put 23K miles on a '13 F800GT with its elegant belt FD. It was quiet, reliable, clean & more efficient than shaft driven designs. Besides looking kind of cool I find the fact the front & rear sprockets (as w/ chains) are all turning in the same plane as the crankshaft is just a very good thing compared to splines, u-joints and 90 degree changes of direction to just be the picture of inelegance and clunkines, and indeed my '16 RT does clunk here and there! I loved the ZERO maintanence for the belt drive. Plus one gets a warning when the belt is beginning to give up the ghost as you will see hairline cracks in the some of the teeth in the belt if you look now and again. I think the risk of a hard rear-wheel lock up due to a catastophic failure is greater in shafts than belts. They aren't great for off-road but my dream replacement for my RT as I age, besides losing 100lbs, would indeed be incorporating a belt drive, and to lose 100lbs and be 100% capable as a Sport Tourer w/ full on tech, performance AND comfort you would need the belt to help meet weight and power concerns.
That's an option BMW chooses not to offer............
ncpbmw1953
Member
And yet if you survey F800GT/ST owners you will find a substantial to majority number of them identify the belt drive as a feature that went into their decision to buy the bike.
ncpbmw1953
Member
Sure, you pretty much have to else you have another set of problems to offset.
36654
New member
It means your drivetrain has one set of bevel gears at the rear hub instead of two like the transverse engined Yamaha FJR1300 or Kawasaki Concourse. A bevel gear might 1% less efficient than a spur.
Are there any parallel twin engines with a driveshaft? That would be my ideal.
Growing up an older brother had a Honda Shadow 500 with a driveshaft. But that was a V-twin....
36654
New member
It was a nice belt drive. Unfortunately, BMW dropped it for something compatible with off-road operation and eliminated a separate drivetrain configuration. Economics.
36654
New member
IIRC Honda had transverse and inline V-twins and V4's with a shaft. Some where turbocharged.
Yamaha did ransverse Vee-twins and 3 and 4-cyl transverse engines with shaft drive.
Kawa and Suzuki did 4-cyl transverse engines with shafts.
gtrider
52184
Yamaha made a transverse Vee-twin, ala Moto Guzzi? I thought all the Yamaha vee-twins were in-line, like H-D.
Best,
DeVern
36654
New member
Yamaha made a transverse Vee-twin, ala Moto Guzzi? I thought all the Yamaha vee-twins were in-line, like H-D.
Best,
DeVern
Guzzi has the crank inline with path of travel. It's transverse to an HD which has a tranverse crank
