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Thread: Looking for info on '04 K1200RS/GT Throttle System Operation

  1. #16
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    Given what you've added, I'd strongly recommend you not dig into your FIE system. Since the problem is at this point merely one of a hunch (?) I'd hate to see anything messed up with no real facts in play. And I hesitate to add, the sensation that one's throttle moves less than someone else's is way down the list of things I'd dig into if in fact a power loss was in play, which you're not yet even sure about.
    I'd start with determining if there is even a problem at all. Do a roll-on with a similar bike? Put it on a dyno?

  2. #17
    Mehrten
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    As good as the cables are on the Beemers, they do wear out.

    Also, there is a plastic pipe inside heated throttle handles that can become a problem.

    The throttle throw should be about 90 degrees. If you are not getting that, something in either the cables or the plastic pipe is giving you trouble.

    I suggest you remove the throttle assembly, do some clean up and check that everything is moving correctly.

    Note: On my 2002 K1200RS the air cleaner/intake muffler pulls off the throttle bodies, there are no clamps. Makes it very easy to observe the butterfly movement.

    Another note: The two-cable throttle assembly can also be a gorilla to twist and keep at a steady opening. This is my third K1200RS and "they all did that."

    I removed the return cable and disconnected one of the throttle return springs. This really loosened up the throttle, especially the closing.

    To me the only down side is the cruise control kill switch in the return cable is not there. Not sure I ever used it anyhow.

    A helpful website: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sel...ct=M&archive=0

  3. #18
    First of all, thank you to everyone who has responded. As I said earlier, I purchased this bike about 2 1/2 years ago specifically to make a project of it. The bike was in very nice condition and only had a little over 15K miles on it. I only rode it for about 300 miles before tearing it down to begin the "project". During that 300 miles I noticed the problem I described with what I perceived as a lack of full-throttle power as compared to my previous 1999 K1200RS. I just kind of ignored it as being all in my head and proceeded with the project. After completing the project and riding the bike for a couple thousand miles I finally decided maybe the problem wasn't just in my head after all and that's when I decided to look into it, but wanted to get a little more educated before making any changes. That's when I posted the inquiry here and I'm very glad I did. I've received some good advice and information. What really helped was the information from Jean about the 86 degrees of throttle rotation. I checked mine and determined that I was getting about 35 degrees of rotation. So, I pulled the left side fairing panel and inspected the clamps on the rubber throttle body connectors as Jean suggested and sure enough, the clamp screw on the #3 TB connector was interfering with the adjustment screw on the TB shaft. Loosened and rotated the clamp about 1/8" and all is good now.

    Thanks again for all the help

    Ted

  4. #19
    Dances With Sheep GREGFEELER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 81664 View Post
    First of all, thank you to everyone who has responded. As I said earlier, I purchased this bike about 2 1/2 years ago specifically to make a project of it. The bike was in very nice condition and only had a little over 15K miles on it. I only rode it for about 300 miles before tearing it down to begin the "project". During that 300 miles I noticed the problem I described with what I perceived as a lack of full-throttle power as compared to my previous 1999 K1200RS. I just kind of ignored it as being all in my head and proceeded with the project. After completing the project and riding the bike for a couple thousand miles I finally decided maybe the problem wasn't just in my head after all and that's when I decided to look into it, but wanted to get a little more educated before making any changes. That's when I posted the inquiry here and I'm very glad I did. I've received some good advice and information. What really helped was the information from Jean about the 86 degrees of throttle rotation. I checked mine and determined that I was getting about 35 degrees of rotation. So, I pulled the left side fairing panel and inspected the clamps on the rubber throttle body connectors as Jean suggested and sure enough, the clamp screw on the #3 TB connector was interfering with the adjustment screw on the TB shaft. Loosened and rotated the clamp about 1/8" and all is good now.

    Thanks again for all the help

    Ted

    First, congratulations on the quick and easy fix to a major problem. Secondly, any idea how the clamp got mis-positioned? Did I mess part of this thread?
    Greg Feeler
    Ambassador & amateur K-Bike collector, it seems
    1972 R75/5, 1990 K75, 1990 K1, 1992 K75S, 2003 K1200RS

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by GREGFEELER View Post
    First, congratulations on the quick and easy fix to a major problem. Secondly, any idea how the clamp got mis-positioned? Did I mess part of this thread?
    Greg,

    Since I actually noticed this issue when I first bought the bike, I'm just guessing that maybe it was mis-positioned during a service that was done while the previous owner had the bike. Could have been that the clamp was loose and someone positioned it for easy access to the clamp screw and tightened it. Just a WAG on my part. I'm just glad it was an easy fix.

    Ted

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 81664 View Post
    First of all, thank you to everyone who has responded. As I said earlier, I purchased this bike about 2 1/2 years ago specifically to make a project of it. The bike was in very nice condition and only had a little over 15K miles on it. I only rode it for about 300 miles before tearing it down to begin the "project". During that 300 miles I noticed the problem I described with what I perceived as a lack of full-throttle power as compared to my previous 1999 K1200RS. I just kind of ignored it as being all in my head and proceeded with the project. After completing the project and riding the bike for a couple thousand miles I finally decided maybe the problem wasn't just in my head after all and that's when I decided to look into it, but wanted to get a little more educated before making any changes. That's when I posted the inquiry here and I'm very glad I did. I've received some good advice and information. What really helped was the information from Jean about the 86 degrees of throttle rotation. I checked mine and determined that I was getting about 35 degrees of rotation. So, I pulled the left side fairing panel and inspected the clamps on the rubber throttle body connectors as Jean suggested and sure enough, the clamp screw on the #3 TB connector was interfering with the adjustment screw on the TB shaft. Loosened and rotated the clamp about 1/8" and all is good now.

    Thanks again for all the help

    Ted
    Glad you got this fixed.
    Next time, just describe your problems / symptoms better in 1st post... you could have fixed this in 1 day instead having to do so much reading on the EFI and throttle-bodies systems ;-)

    Of course, I am just kidding, but your 1st post was just too vague for me to have a clue. A bit later, when you finally described the twistgrip rotation limitation (compare to another good working k1200), then it was much easier for me to give the "most probable cause".

    In last 17 years, I have seen variation of this bad clamps installation many times on 3 separate forums for K1200RS-LT (and one in my own garage on a friend K1200). In one cases, I had a forum member show me a picture of his throttle-bodies from top (with air-box removed). His question was something like: "is it normal that the butterflies do not open fully vertically on the k1200RS ?" Of course it was not OK, because one clamp was jamming one of the 2 cables pulley.

    I consider this as gross negligence to install fairing whithout checking all possible mechanical interference - from throttle cables to anything related that was touched or removed. This a major safety item as you create a "potential" where the throttle will not fully return close on models having only 1 throttle-cable (on these, only the TB spring can force the closing). On the 2 cables models (with cruise), you would probably override the clamp restriction / interference with hand power.
    JEAN
    Montreal (CANADA)
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Current: K1200RS (2002) with 96,000 miles (155,000 KM)

  7. #22
    Dances With Sheep GREGFEELER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myK1200rs View Post
    Glad you got this fixed.
    Next time, just describe your problems / symptoms better in 1st post... you could have fixed this in 1 day instead having to do so much reading on the EFI and throttle-bodies systems ;-)

    Of course, I am just kidding, but your 1st post was just too vague for me to have a clue. A bit later, when you finally described the twistgrip rotation limitation (compare to another good working k1200), then it was much easier for me to give the "most probable cause".

    In last 17 years, I have seen variation of this bad clamps installation many times on 3 separate forums for K1200RS-LT (and one in my own garage on a friend K1200). In one cases, I had a forum member show me a picture of his throttle-bodies from top (with air-box removed). His question was something like: "is it normal that the butterflies do not open fully vertically on the k1200RS ?" Of course it was not OK, because one clamp was jamming one of the 2 cables pulley.

    I consider this as gross negligence to install fairing whithout checking all possible mechanical interference - from throttle cables to anything related that was touched or removed. This a major safety item as you create a "potential" where the throttle will not fully return close on models having only 1 throttle-cable (on these, only the TB spring can force the closing). On the 2 cables models (with cruise), you would probably override the clamp restriction / interference with hand power.
    This was educational for me as I'd not been aware of the potential for this problem. However, I can attest that through repeated testing I know the throttle plates my K1200RS do, in fact, open all the way.
    Greg Feeler
    Ambassador & amateur K-Bike collector, it seems
    1972 R75/5, 1990 K75, 1990 K1, 1992 K75S, 2003 K1200RS

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by myK1200rs View Post
    Glad you got this fixed.
    Next time, just describe your problems / symptoms better in 1st post... you could have fixed this in 1 day instead having to do so much reading on the EFI and throttle-bodies systems ;-)
    Ya, you're right Jean, but I'm glad that this thread went the way it did because I really wanted to learn more about those other components (throttle valve potentiometer and actuator), and the documentation you provided really helped.

    I took the bike out for a little ride today (about 180 miles) and it's amazing how much better it performs at WOT when the butterfly's open all the way

    Thanks again

    Ted

  9. #24
    Dances With Sheep GREGFEELER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 81664 View Post
    Ya, you're right Jean, but I'm glad that this thread went the way it did because I really wanted to learn more about those other components (throttle valve potentiometer and actuator), and the documentation you provided really helped.

    I took the bike out for a little ride today (about 180 miles) and it's amazing how much better it performs at WOT when the butterfly's open all the way

    Thanks again

    Ted
    I call the effect you described as "Grin Factor."
    Greg Feeler
    Ambassador & amateur K-Bike collector, it seems
    1972 R75/5, 1990 K75, 1990 K1, 1992 K75S, 2003 K1200RS

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 81664 View Post
    Ya, you're right Jean, but I'm glad that this thread went the way it did because I really wanted to learn more about those other components (throttle valve potentiometer and actuator), and the documentation you provided really helped.

    I took the bike out for a little ride today (about 180 miles) and it's amazing how much better it performs at WOT when the butterfly's open all the way

    Thanks again

    Ted
    Glad these 2 documents helped you gather some understanding of your K1200RS.

    There is a lot more research / tests I have done on the K1200RS-LT Motronic EFI that I have NOT published here... Various tidbits posted over last 10 years on the now defunt I-BMW forum were lost when they shut it down a few years ago. Of course,I have notes, photos and documents here on my own computer. These 2 PDF documents you saw earlier were done to organize various tidbits of info related to TPS and TVA (idle actuator).

    The quest began a few years after I bought my K1200RS. I cannot recall exact year, but around 2007 someone from Norway posted a request on the I-BMW forum about a problem he had - unfortunatly he had messed up the TPS position and a few other adjustments screws in trying to fix his issue.

    About at the same time, by some coincidende, I had just received my GS911 so it was a good time to gather various EFI sensors data including TPS on a "known good running K1200RS". Even the older generation of YELLOW GS911 like mine can log sensors data in real-time to a file (in addition to reading fault codes).

    During last 40 years, I had fixed many fuelling issues on carburator motorcycles, but in 2007 I finally "bit the bullet" and began a quest to read books and study various forums about EFI systems (both on cars and motorcycles). In additon to my "serious" hobby about motorcycle maintenance, I have a background as a computer programmer so this was a "normal" progression / evolution.
    Last edited by myK1200rs; 07-31-2020 at 04:17 PM.
    JEAN
    Montreal (CANADA)
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Current: K1200RS (2002) with 96,000 miles (155,000 KM)

  11. #26
    Jean,

    I'm sure that all of your research and testing has helped many of us K12 owners. I'm certainly not aware of any other sources available to acquire this information. I, for one, appreciate all your effort.

    Ted

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