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Thread: DrNeo's 2013 F800GS Blackstone Laboratories Oil Analysis Reports

  1. #1
    Registered User drneo66's Avatar
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    DrNeo's 2013 F800GS Blackstone Laboratories Oil Analysis Reports

    Another oil debate? Nah – just for inquisitive minds.

    Below the first report from Blackstone Labs on how my 2013 F800GS is doing. The bike now has about 24,000 miles on it. As with most BMW's, it's overly maintained...

    I went a bit over on the suggested oil change interval (6k miles) as I was going on a longer trip (George A. Wyman Grand Tour - the first motorcyclist to cross the US). I did hit some warmer temps (95+ F) in California, but that was relatively short lived. The majority of miles were spent at 70-80mph.

    The oil used was Liqui Moly 4T 15w-50 (which is the current/updated BMW recommendation for oil weight) I also used the Mahle oil filter from BeemerBoneyard and stock BMW air filter. I didn't need to add any oil for this interval either.

    After these results, I probably won't do an oil analysis every oil change, but maybe every other. Even though I'm getting good results pushing the oil beyond the recommend 6k interval, I also probably won't push it all the way to 10k, but I won't sweat it if I'm beyond 6k either.

    As I do more, I'll keep posting them here.

    Blackstone report.jpg
    Last edited by drneo66; 07-15-2020 at 07:13 PM.
    Current: 2007 BMW R1200RT, 2013 F800GS
    Former: 1995 BMW K75S, 2009 BMW G650GS
    MOA Member #:150400, IBA#: 37558

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    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    Cool! By any chance, do you have a baseline report? Would be interesting to see the changes. Especially interesting is the statement regarding how viscosity was low within the 15w50 range. I did an oil article in March 2013 ON for a variety of oils, mostly focused on 20w50. I was interested in where within the viscosity range each oil fell. I figured that if an oil started out high within the range, then it has some to "give up" during operation. If it was low in the range, then it might not be the specified oil after a few miles.

    One thing I had heard about was how fleet owners of say large fleets of vehicles use the Total Acid Number (TAN) and Total Base Number (TBN) as a guide when to change oils. Typically, the TBN starts high but drops while the TAN rises as more acids from combustion find their way into the oil. The fleet managers would use the point at which the two measurements cross each other as a time to change engine oils.
    Kurt -- Forum Liaison ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Registered User drneo66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Cool! By any chance, do you have a baseline report? Would be interesting to see the changes. Especially interesting is the statement regarding how viscosity was low within the 15w50 range. I did an oil article in March 2013 ON for a variety of oils, mostly focused on 20w50. I was interested in where within the viscosity range each oil fell. I figured that if an oil started out high within the range, then it has some to "give up" during operation. If it was low in the range, then it might not be the specified oil after a few miles.

    One thing I had heard about was how fleet owners of say large fleets of vehicles use the Total Acid Number (TAN) and Total Base Number (TBN) as a guide when to change oils. Typically, the TBN starts high but drops while the TAN rises as more acids from combustion find their way into the oil. The fleet managers would use the point at which the two measurements cross each other as a time to change engine oils.
    I didn't send in a baseline, but I'll see if Blackstone has one.

    Agreed with TAN/TBN - I guess I'm not super concerned about running my oil to the exact last mile, more curious on how well the engine is wearning.
    Current: 2007 BMW R1200RT, 2013 F800GS
    Former: 1995 BMW K75S, 2009 BMW G650GS
    MOA Member #:150400, IBA#: 37558

  4. #4
    Registered User drneo66's Avatar
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    Bike now has 42k miles on it - this was towards the end of last season. Again n=1, but it's kind of interesting


    Current: 2007 BMW R1200RT, 2013 F800GS
    Former: 1995 BMW K75S, 2009 BMW G650GS
    MOA Member #:150400, IBA#: 37558

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    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update! So is this a test on oil that had been in the bike for 6 months? I'm guessing not since you went 20K miles in that 6 months.

    The only thing that is weird seems to be the cSt viscosity which is the rating for the oil ie the 15w part. In both before and after testing, the viscosity is below the range that qualifies it as a 15w oil. I'm surprised they didn't comment on that.

    I'm wondering if the differences in the numbers is just the variations on testing?? Also, it would have been interesting to see TAN/TBN values. In my article I think I discussed these numbers. The oil starts out with a largish total base number (TBN) and as acids are put into the oil from combustion products over time, the total acid number (TAN) increase from a lowish number. I had heard that fleet operators monitor these two numbers and when the cross each other, one going up and the other going down, that's the signal to change the oil. Maybe that's the wrong interpretation of those numbers, but for all the 20w oils I tested in 2013, the cSt viscosity were typically 18 or higher.
    Kurt -- Forum Liaison ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Registered User drneo66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Thanks for the update! So is this a test on oil that had been in the bike for 6 months? I'm guessing not since you went 20K miles in that 6 months.

    The only thing that is weird seems to be the cSt viscosity which is the rating for the oil ie the 15w part. In both before and after testing, the viscosity is below the range that qualifies it as a 15w oil. I'm surprised they didn't comment on that.
    Oil went into the bike on 9/28/2020 and out on 12/15/2020.

    This and the previous analysis are shown together (I did two other oil changes in between these two at 28837 and 36060 miles).

    Further investigation is needed into the viscosity numbers
    I'll post back what I find out!
    Current: 2007 BMW R1200RT, 2013 F800GS
    Former: 1995 BMW K75S, 2009 BMW G650GS
    MOA Member #:150400, IBA#: 37558

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    Registered User drneo66's Avatar
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    I emailed Blackstone the other day, and they got right back to me

    "No, the viscosity being a little low isn't a big deal. It's pretty common to find the oil thinner at the end of a run, especially with motorcycle engines, and it isn't causing any trouble. Maybe if there was contamination and poor wear occurring, our opinion would be different. But as things are, these are all pretty standard results."
    Current: 2007 BMW R1200RT, 2013 F800GS
    Former: 1995 BMW K75S, 2009 BMW G650GS
    MOA Member #:150400, IBA#: 37558

  8. #8
    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    Hmmm...that doesn't sound good to me. The thought I came to when doing my tests was the state of viscosity and how it is maintained through the usage cycle of the oil. A 20w50 oil has to have a test viscosity but there is a range over which it still qualifies as the 20w50...it was in my article and shown in your test results. We know the viscosity is going to degrade over time...the VI or viscosity improvers get sheared over time and they don't recombine fully so the viscosity drops. Seems to me that if you start high in the viscosity range (ie, the cSt viscosity) and after all of the wear and tear of the duty cycle, you were still in the viscosity range for the 50w part of the it, that's sounds good to me. If I use the oil for some period and at the end the viscosity is not 50 anymore but really tests out at 40, seems like I wasn't getting the lubrication that my engine needed. Just IMO.
    Kurt -- Forum Liaison ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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