Engine flush

BC1100S said:

I believe in the olden days laugh) of SC and SD oils, engine flushes may have been needed. Especially when the US car manufacturers were recommending 6,000 mile oil change intervals. I recall as a youth looking inside the valve cover of a Chevy straight-6 and witnessing what I would guess was a multi-pound build up of sludge. Now, with the advent of much better oils, not so much. As Mr. Feeler has pointed out, there are exceptions.

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DISCLAIMER - This is NOT an attempt to start a dreaded oil thread!

I did some checking and a 2018 Toyota Sienna (mine is older) has a factory recommended oil change of 10,000 miles or 12 months with synthetic oil. Many BMW, Mercedes, & Mini cars recommend 10,000 mile changes. The Edmonds.com web site has an interesting article denouncing the 3,000 mile recommendations of quick lube places, and many car dealerships as a fear mongering who's only benefit is to get customers to return far more often than the need to: https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/stop-changing-your-oil.html. One key quote from this article: "The majority of automakers today call for oil changes at either 7,500 or 10,000 miles, and the interval can go as high as 15,000 miles in some cars."

YMMV

GREGFEELER said:

DISCLAIMER - This is NOT an attempt to start a dreaded oil thread!

I did some checking and a 2018 Toyota Sienna (mine is older) has a factory recommended oil change of 10,000 miles or 12 months with synthetic oil. Many BMW, Mercedes, & Mini cars recommend 10,000 mile changes. The Edmonds.com web site has an interesting article denouncing the 3,000 mile recommendations of quick lube places, and many car dealerships as a fear mongering who's only benefit is to get customers to return far more often than the need to: https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/stop-changing-your-oil.html. One key quote from this article: "The majority of automakers today call for oil changes at either 7,500 or 10,000 miles, and the interval can go as high as 15,000 miles in some cars."

YMMV

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If one happens to select a vehicle equipped with the rare and endangered dip-stick......and you look once in a while, I find I can get a pretty fair idea on the oil condition. Oils are better at what they do nowadays, or so it seems.
OM

Omega Man said:

If one happens to select a vehicle equipped with the rare and endangered dip-stick......and you look once in a while, I find I can get a pretty fair idea on the oil condition. Oils are better at what they do nowadays, or so it seems.
OM

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I was never able to do that - new oil gets dark pretty fast and looks all the same to me. So I started sending samples to Blackstone labs to get data which I found very interesting. Mostly, that for the kind of short run town driving my 4-wheel vehicles do predominantly, oils like the Extended Performance Mobil1 really need to be changed at no more than half the 15,000 life they advertise.

GREGFEELER said:

I was never able to do that - new oil gets dark pretty fast and looks all the same to me. So I started sending samples to Blackstone labs to get data which I found very interesting. Mostly, that for the kind of short run town driving my 4-wheel vehicles do predominantly, oils like the Extended Performance Mobil1 really need to be changed at no more than half the 15,000 life they advertise.

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For your consideration-
What would you (anybody) do if the oil analysis came back a bit "off"? I probably still have 16 engines here....had more when I was really rolling
I don't know of anyone ever losing an engine except when there was no- or low, oil.
Just curious.
OM

Omega Man said:

For your consideration-
What would you (anybody) do if the oil analysis came back a bit "off"? I probably still have 16 engines here....had more when I was really rolling
I don't know of anyone ever losing an engine except when there was no- or low, oil.
Just curious.
OM

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That would depend on what "off" means. In my case I learned not to use Mobile1 Extended Performance in one particular vehicle (car) because the analysis told me I was getting a tiny bit of bearing wear after 8,000 miles in that vehicle and use pattern. Changing to standard Mobile1 (same viscosity) which was less expensive and changing at 5,000 miles eliminated any bearing metal traces. Conversely, I learned that I could safely go 5,000 miles - instead of the 3,000 the quick lube paces and the Subaru dealer said. By increasing my oil change interval by 60% every third oil change was free and I gained 1,000 "free" miles, so every five oil changes I got another one free. Something like that. I do tend to keep my vehicles a very long time, so if I can do something to save money and/or extend life at a reasonable cost or effort, I'm good for that.

I figured that is the way trucking companies use oil analysis to determine when to change the oil in a big rig where they want the engine to go hundreds of thousands of miles, but only do oil changes when truly necessary since they are so expensive on that kind of equipment. Once I got a good baseline on my cars I really didn't feel the need to pay for an oil analysis at every oil change, but I did feel the cost was worth it initially as it was the only way I could get data about my vehicles, lubricants, and usage patterns. Everything else was advertising claims, perhaps outdated behaviors ("They say...") for oils and engines decades old, or just uninformed opinions, well intended as they may be.

As for my bikes, I change the oil more frequently as my usage patterns are so (unfortunately) inconsistent that I can't go by miles in some cases, and have to go by time. For example, my K1 doesn't get hardly any miles but gets the oil changed annually, etc.

GREGFEELER said:

DISCLAIMER - This is NOT an attempt to start a dreaded oil thread!

I did some checking and a 2018 Toyota Sienna (mine is older) has a factory recommended oil change of 10,000 miles or 12 months with synthetic oil. Many BMW, Mercedes, & Mini cars recommend 10,000 mile changes. The Edmonds.com web site has an interesting article denouncing the 3,000 mile recommendations of quick lube places, and many car dealerships as a fear mongering who's only benefit is to get customers to return far more often than the need to: https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/stop-changing-your-oil.html. One key quote from this article: "The majority of automakers today call for oil changes at either 7,500 or 10,000 miles, and the interval can go as high as 15,000 miles in some cars."

YMMV

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Agree 100%.

I will toss in a couple of comments here. In general I don't see any real value in an engine flush when using modern oils and reasonable change intervals. That is oil to spec and change interval at 6,000 miles as specified by BMW.

But that does not mean that using a targeted solvent to deal with a specific issue isn't useful. Back when I was a kid in the 1960s it was faairly common to have sticking hydraulic valve lifters in those big V8s. And the best solution around was a product known as Valve Medic. It was/is a solvent additive specifically targeted to dissolve gums that cause(d) sticky lifters.

Fast forward to the latter 1980s and beyond. The constantly engaged starters on the K100 and K75 and other classic K bikes bikes have a sprag clutch. And the little pawls are in constant contact with the rotating surface. To minimize wear the springs used to keep the pawls in contact are pretty light. So, even the slightest bit of gums can eventually keep the pawls from firm contact permitting the clutch to slip. Getting to that sprag clutch to clean it is a lot of work. Enter the world of modern chemistry. Recalling the Valve Medic of my youth I was able to obtain it still. So as a therapeutic to clean the starter clutch I found it works as well as it does for sticky hydraulic valve lifters.

GREGFEELER said:

That would depend on what "off" means. In my case I learned not to use Mobile1 Extended Performance in one particular vehicle (car) because the analysis told me I was getting a tiny bit of bearing wear after 8,000 miles in that vehicle and use pattern.

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I think only an oil analysis on that vehicle will tell you. On my BMW road car (2013 328i 2L turbo), I use synthetic oil which meets the BMW LL-01 standard and I change it at 10,000 miles. However, I change the filter at 5,000 miles and top up. Most folks on the BMW F30 forum change oil MUCH more frequently than that. My Blackstone analysis said the oil was still perfect at 10k and that I had lower traces of bearing material than the average 328i, even though the vehicle has 136k miles on the clock.

I'm a fan of oil analysis.

jsouth said:

I think only an oil analysis on that vehicle will tell you. On my BMW road car (2013 328i 2L turbo), I use synthetic oil which meets the BMW LL-01 standard and I change it at 10,000 miles. However, I change the filter at 5,000 miles and top up. Most folks on the BMW F30 forum change oil MUCH more frequently than that. My Blackstone analysis said the oil was still perfect at 10k and that I had lower traces of bearing material than the average 328i, even though the vehicle has 136k miles on the clock.

I'm a fan of oil analysis.

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Actually, I was describing that I learned these things by using the Blackstone oil analysis, so you and agree on the value of that kind of data.

I would think if you had a serious sludge problem, that you noticed when setting the valve lash, an engine flush, fresh oil and filter and a possible second flush afterwards. If you change your oil as recommended, you probably will never need this.

GREGFEELER said:

Actually, I was describing that I learned these things by using the Blackstone oil analysis, so you and agree on the value of that kind of data.

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I'm sorry if it was not clear that I agree! I totally do agree. Now I'm wondering why I haven't done it with my bike.....

jsouth said:

I'm sorry if it was not clear that I agree! I totally do agree. Now I'm wondering why I haven't done it with my bike.....

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In my case I haven't due to: TMOCGO (Too Much Other Crap Going On).