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Real problem with Spiegler lines

Spiegler is driving me crazy! I'm working to bring back to life a 1991 K75s. Bought a set of Spiegler lines from SportTrack Gear. Single rear kit and three lines in front kit. . The back line is on and fine. The front line box says" orig w/o abs and up to 9/91." The two bottom lines look correct. The top line on the handlebar is about 5" long. The original line is about 15" long and curls around.

I have called Spiegler several times. I've been told they will call back and then they don't. I called back today, after a week of waiting. The guy says, "Are they the stock bars?" I told him yes, I believed so because of the foam dash the fits over the crossbar. He then tells me that they have sold "thousands" of the kits and never had a problem, that "it's the right line for the bike." I have sent him about ten pictures of the bike, lines, etc. Spiegler seems to be more than implying that this is my fault. Lets see, I bought the kit listed for a 91, my title says it's a 91, the top line is too short, but it's my fault. Okay, that makes sense.

Over the years I have spent around $600 on these overpriced Spiegler lines. You would think they would say, "Sorry for the problem, we'll make up the right line and send it to you". But no, I have to spend a couple of weeks of my time to try and fix this. It would cost them $5, maybe, to run up a line. But they want to argue about this, apparently all summer. I've never had a problem with Spiegler lines before. But this episode is giving me a whole different perspective on the company. These may well be my last set of Spiegler lines.

So, could someone post a picture of the stock k75s bars, and perhaps the top brake line also. I'll see if I can transfer them to an email to Speigler. For the life of me, I can't see how a 5" line could ever work, going from the master cylinder down to the bottom lines, but perhaps I am wrong. It happens frequently.
 

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I can't be sure from the photo but those do not look like stock handlebars to me. But that aside, I would just tell Spiegler how long a line I need. They will build it. They may charge you for it. Fair? Maybe not but at least you will have a bike with brakes.

I do know that K75 front lines had more than one configuration. One used a splitter and two lines to the front calipers and another had a single line to one caliper and a crossover line to the other caliper.
 
John,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news. Speigler is correct.

The original hose for your bike with stock bars and no barbacks is 142mm.
01 34 32 1 451 570 BRAKE HOSE - L=142MM (to 09/91)

The hose that is on your bike never came on ANY K75.


The bars that are on your bike also are not K75S bars. K75S bars are 5 1/4" across the bar that the clamps clamp to between the welded on horns.

Your bars appear to be off the 16valve K100RS or a K1100RS which has 6 1/2" between the horns. This is the same bars that I put on my K75S because the bars are about 1 1/2" wider than the S bars (same height and pull back as the S).

I installed a 14 or 15" custom hose and curled it around just like yours. The stock hose is a straight shot from the master to the y tube in the steering stem.

You might have to swallow your pride and send back the hose Speigler sent you plus several bucks for a hose that is as long as the one on your bike.

OR

Locate a hydraulic hose shop in your area and have them make one up. It needs to be a TEFLON lined stainss hose. Rubber or neoprene lined will NOT work. No loss of pride involved and maybe cheaper.





:dance:dance:dance
 
Spiegler is driving me crazy!...

I have called Spiegler several times. I've been told they will call back and then they don't. I called back today, after a week of waiting. The guy says, "Are they the stock bars?" I told him yes, I believed so because of the foam dash the fits over the crossbar. He then tells me that they have sold "thousands" of the kits and never had a problem, that "it's the right line for the bike." I have sent him about ten pictures of the bike, lines, etc. Spiegler seems to be more than implying that this is my fault. Lets see, I bought the kit listed for a 91, my title says it's a 91, the top line is too short, but it's my fault. Okay, that makes sense...

Actually, it makes perfect sense. You don’t have stock handlebars. There is no way for them to know that the handlebars have been changed, especially if the owner himself doesn’t even know!

I hope you weren’t truculent with the guy from Spiegler. This is all on you and is no fault of Spiegler’s. Maybe they could have returned your call sooner, but many businesses are experiencing delayed customer service due to coronavirus.
 
vark;1210582 This is all on you and is no fault of Spiegler’s. Maybe they could have returned your call sooner said:
Well, you may have missed the part of my post where I said I had given Speigler around $600 over the years. Something I believe I mentioned to them. Chickenfeed in the BMW world, I know, but real money to me. At no time did they suggest that they would work with me, build a new line, etc. It was just, "Hey, stop trying to scam us, buddy."

I see the problem with the bars and I appreciate the help. I would never have suspected the bars were not the original. Of course I don't know why I'm surprised. The real problem is with me buying these older BMW bikes and then trying to undo what all the previous ten owners did to ruin them. What a waste of time and money. Three times and it's always the same: put a lot of work into them and then when you find they have some fatal design flaw, you can't give them away.

I'll probably finish this one, but this may very well be my last BMW.
 
When I lived in Columbus, Ohio and I needed a brake line that was somewhat uncommon (front for a Cagiva Elefant 650), I rode over to the Spiegler building near Dayton. I gave them the old line and in short order (while I waited) a new line was made.

There are some interesting ways to go from Akron, Ohio to Dayton, Ohio that do not involve droning on the super...unless that is your thing.
 
most lines can be made in town

I found that almost any hydraulic line can be custom made right in your home town in a part store or similar.. they are advertised all over around here ( town of 100k in MT)
 
I know of no stock line that just about loops around itself when installed. The bars look like what came on my K75C.
 
For those following this I will ad an update. I called Charlie at Spiegel and explained the situation, noting that the problem was my fault and not theirs. I asked him what it would cost for the single line (14") and was told it would be $65, plus shipping. I didn't say anything, but just thanked him for the information. Privately, I did feel that $70 for a single small line was a tad high, but there was no point in arguing the point.

I did extensive calling and found it was mighty hard to get a single line made up, basically, it seemed impossible. But.....

On a whim I went to Summit Racing, who's headquarters are nearby. By golly, they have these same teflon lines, grey stainless steel covering, with female ends. Then you buy the banjo fittings and put them together. Presto chango, you have a nice brake line. The cost for my 14 inch with fittings: $34. They look just like Spiegels, or close enough for my taste.

Looks like from now on I will no longer need to bother Spiegel for brake lines. Hopefully others may be able to find this information useful.
 
I know of no stock line that just about loops around itself when installed. The bars look like what came on my K75C.

C bars are 1 piece. S and RS bars are 3 pieces welded together. Look at Johns photos, they are 3 pieces welded at the corners.





:dance:dance:dance
 
For those following this I will ad an update. I called Charlie at Spiegel and explained the situation, noting that the problem was my fault and not theirs. I asked him what it would cost for the single line (14") and was told it would be $65, plus shipping. I didn't say anything, but just thanked him for the information. Privately, I did feel that $70 for a single small line was a tad high, but there was no point in arguing the point.

I did extensive calling and found it was mighty hard to get a single line made up, basically, it seemed impossible. But.....

On a whim I went to Summit Racing, who's headquarters are nearby. By golly, they have these same teflon lines, grey stainless steel covering, with female ends. Then you buy the banjo fittings and put them together. Presto chango, you have a nice brake line. The cost for my 14 inch with fittings: $34. They look just like Spiegels, or close enough for my taste.

Looks like from now on I will no longer need to bother Spiegel for brake lines. Hopefully others may be able to find this information useful.




John,


Great find! I've used Summit for decades for my race cars. Super company! I just never thought of them for the bikes. I'll have to check them out for hoses. I had literally JUST called my local hose guy, before I read your post, to see if you wanted me to get a hose for you and was quoted $45.

Their Sparks, Nevada warehouse will usually get stuff to me the next day without paying for special shipping.


Thanks for the heads up!



:dance:dance:dance
 
For those following this I will ad an update. I called Charlie at Spiegel and explained the situation, noting that the problem was my fault and not theirs. I asked him what it would cost for the single line (14") and was told it would be $65, plus shipping. I didn't say anything, but just thanked him for the information. Privately, I did feel that $70 for a single small line was a tad high, but there was no point in arguing the point.

I did extensive calling and found it was mighty hard to get a single line made up, basically, it seemed impossible. But.....

On a whim I went to Summit Racing, who's headquarters are nearby. By golly, they have these same teflon lines, grey stainless steel covering, with female ends. Then you buy the banjo fittings and put them together. Presto chango, you have a nice brake line. The cost for my 14 inch with fittings: $34. They look just like Spiegels, or close enough for my taste.

Looks like from now on I will no longer need to bother Spiegel for brake lines. Hopefully others may be able to find this information useful.

I’ve never been to their shop (didn’t even know they had one!) but have always been pleased with everything I’ve ordered from Summit Racing. :thumb
 
John,


Great find! I've used Summit for decades for my race cars. Super company! I just never thought of them for the bikes. I'll have to check them out for hoses. I had literally JUST called my local hose guy, before I read your post, to see if you wanted me to get a hose for you and was quoted $45.

Their Sparks, Nevada warehouse will usually get stuff to me the next day without paying for special shipping.


Thanks for the heads up!

:dance:dance:dance

Lee,
Thanks for the effort on the hose. I would have been glad to pay $45 to Spiegel for one of their hoses. I'm glad to hear that a hose from your supplier is available, if by chance the Summit hose doesn't work out. I haven't tried it yet.

Maybe someone can clarify something, though. I was told by one of the people I talked with on hose work that you couldn't use hydraulic hose for brake lines. He claimed the brake fluid would eat up the hose. I couldn't say yes or no to that. He also mentioned something about in not holding brake line pressure. I asked him about his pressure ratings and he said his 1/4" was rated about about 3000 psi. I mentioned that I didn't think I could get that kind of pressure on my master brake hand lever.
 
John,

There are many kinds of hydraulic lines, each for different purposes.

Basic hydraulic lines use neoprene on the inside. This is adequate for low pressure oils.

For brake lines you want to use Teflon lined hydraulic hose. The Teflon is way more resistant to expansion, so it makes the brakes feel less spongey (that is why they an upgrade over older stock hoses).

The Teflon lines are also more chemically resistant, so they resist breakdown.

Some vehicles can generate as high as 3000lbs in a static test, but the wheels will usually lock up well before those kind of pressures are reached.




:dance:dance:dance
 
I have no experience with hose linings but do have experience with clutch system seals. And I do know that seals used for brake fluid in the hydraulic clutch system will be rapidly destroyed by petroleum or mineral oils, and that seals designed for mineral oil will be rapidly destroyed by DOT 4 brake fluid. I assume the same would be the case with some hydraulic line linings.
 
<<Three times and it's always the same: put a lot of work into them and then when you find they have some fatal design flaw, you can't give them away.
I'll probably finish this one, but this may very well be my last BMW. >>

Yup. Though I think the case may apply to most mainstream bikes these days. The market is shrinking and demand is low. With the exception of exotics and collectables, there is little or no money to be had in flipping bikes these days. And even amongst the BMW crowd, the Ks are less popular.
Not sure what fatal flaw you are referring to.
The flip side is that those of us who want to simply buy them and ride them have the choice of a lot of cheap bikes on the market.
 
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