another paint vs powder coat thread

hello all.

If I was to send the frame for powder coating, is it a must to remove the drive shaft? what are the risk of leaving it in place? Are there bearings in the U joints that might get damaged by the heat?

its a 1973 R60/5 with 40 000 miles on it and I have stripped it down to the frame. I hear that removing and installing the drive shaft from the swing arm is a pain and requires tools that I don't have, so I am trying to not mess with it and for that reason I had decided to paint the frame.

I called a local reputable shop that does lots of custom paint jobs to get a quote re painting the frame. He strongly recommended that I should powder coat it instead.

Speaking of tools. Is there any member from Westchester NY that can loan me some of these special tools?

Can anyone recommend a reputable shop in Westchester NY to help out with the difficult jobs, say remove and replace the driveshaft, rear seal etc.

thank you.

I have done both. I would think that any grease in the driveshaft would contaminate any powder coating. I had my local shop remove and reinstall mine. The painted effort worked as well (different bike) without removing the driveshaft. I used POR15 which I think provides an excellent coating. It's durable, easy to apply and cheaper than powder coating. Powder coating does look great though, and is durable as well.

Doug

83014 said:

I have done both. I would think that any grease in the driveshaft would contaminate any powder coating. I had my local shop remove and reinstall mine. The painted effort worked as well (different bike) without removing the driveshaft. I used POR15 which I think provides an excellent coating. It's durable, easy to apply and cheaper than powder coating. Powder coating does look great though, and is durable as well.

Doug

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Thank you.

Initial thought was to paint it myself. However, considering the mess I am certain I will make in my garage and on my self, I was thinking to have someone else do it. Also, I don't have a proper setup to spray myself so spray can would be my method.

My frame is in decent shape with usual scrapes and damaged paint. Only some surface rust at the swing arm.

Would por15 be ok on non rusted surfaces after I sand the existing paint just to break the coat and roughen the surface. I am not going to bare metal.

Called a local shop and will stop by later to have the drive shaft removed if the local PC shop gives me a good price.

r60celo5 said:

Thank you.

Initial thought was to paint it myself. However, considering the mess I am certain I will make in my garage and on my self, I was thinking to have someone else do it. Also, I don't have a proper setup to spray myself so spray can would be my method.

My frame is in decent shape with usual scrapes and damaged paint. Only some surface rust at the swing arm.

Would por15 be ok on non rusted surfaces after I sand the existing paint just to break the coat and roughen the surface. I am not going to bare metal.

Called a local shop and will stop by later to have the drive shaft removed if the local PC shop gives me a good price.

Click to expand...

R60celo5,

One thing to keep in mind about powder coating is the parts are heated to 400-450F. That can affect things like the swing arm bearings and the drive shaft universal joint bearings. The drive shaft universal joint bearings are sealed so they don't leak grease. I always remove the swing arm bearings.

I came up with a way to have the swing arm powder coated without removing the driveshaft and my powder coater did the job keeping the powder coat out of the inside of the drive shaft tube. I have north of 10,000 miles on the drive shaft and no signs of universal joint bearing problems.

That said, after further reflection, I no longer take the short cut. I remove the drive shaft and swing arm bearings before powder coating the swing arm. It's the safest way to go.

I have also spray painted a swing arm. I sanded the existing paint with 320 wet/dry paper being sure to remove all the rust with navel jelly. I use brake caliper paint and bake it in the oven at 200 F for one hour after it dries completely to harden it. This is an epoxy based paint and is very durable and not attacked by gas, oil, brake fluid or gasoline. Again, I removed the swing arm bearings before painting.

I hope that helps.

Best.
Brook Reams.

brook.reams said:

R60celo5,

One thing to keep in mind about powder coating is the parts are heated to 400-450F. That can affect things like the swing arm bearings and the drive shaft universal joint bearings. The drive shaft universal joint bearings are sealed so they don't leak grease. I always remove the swing arm bearings.

I came up with a way to have the swing arm powder coated without removing the driveshaft and my powder coater did the job keeping the powder coat out of the inside of the drive shaft tube. I have north of 10,000 miles on the drive shaft and no signs of universal joint bearing problems.

That said, after further reflection, I no longer take the short cut. I remove the drive shaft and swing arm bearings before powder coating the swing arm. It's the safest way to go.

I have also spray painted a swing arm. I sanded the existing paint with 320 wet/dry paper being sure to remove all the rust with navel jelly. I use brake caliper paint and bake it in the oven at 200 F for one hour after it dries completely to harden it. This is an epoxy based paint and is very durable and not attacked by gas, oil, brake fluid or gasoline. Again, I removed the swing arm bearings before painting.

I hope that helps.

Best.
Brook Reams.

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thank you Brook

first off let me thank you for the thoroughly detailed write ups on your website. very valuable information and it gave me the courage to take on this built.

this is my second built, last year I restored a 1976 Honda CB550 4 cylinder and the airhead level of detailing and engineering is at a whole other level: mass produced Japanese MC vs Ultimate Riding machine. as an example there are twice as many parts in the front forks in the airhead (piston rings, ball valve, bump stops, seals, washers etc) that you don't find in the Honda. I am not putting down Honda in any way, its still a great machine, very nimble and gorgeous.

re paint vs powder coat, I have removed the swing arm seals and bearings, the bearing races are in place till I find the right tool to remove them. i removed the seals with a hook looking thing from AutoZone and it was a pain, the seals were destroyed. I am trying to hold off on buying special tools as this is a one off built for me and rather put the money towards the parts or beer.

my concern is the Universal joint bearings being exposed to the heat, I did save an empty soup can just in case, well is a chilli can I hope it will work just as well

still waiting on the powder coater to respond to my email with a quote, I have called around and was quoted anywhere from 400$ - 600$, that money would be better spent on rear suspension.

I am also looking into POR 15 and how to apply it with a brush or roller and follow with a compatible spray paint as top coat.

regards,

When I painted my R75/6, for the frame and the headlight shell, I used a one part polyurethane boat paint from interlux. My small shop compressor was fine and I used a Sharpe touch up paint gun that I have had for at least 30 years. The finish is durable, looks fine and is “repairable”. The can of paint was $30 For a quart and I probably still have half of it. Otherwise the cost was sandpaper and solvent.

I've had several frames powdercoated, I believe six at this point, presently refreshing a 1984 R80st.
I have always removed steering tube bearing and races, swing arm bearingds and races and on all BMW's I have removed the drive shaft.
The process of powdercoating requires the removal of finish on the parts you are coating. In a lot of cases this is done by sand blasting, soda blasting or chemical removal, all of which are not real good for parts left on the bike.
By whatever means the existing finish is removed, I always felt it better to remove those parts.
The other issue is the heat needed to accomplish the powdercoating process is quite high. I always worried about any grease or oils that might be trapped in bearings or races that might liquifify and drip or run onto the frame or swing arm during the heating process and ruin the finish.
The other side of the issue is, if you are this far into your project why would you not take the extra step and replace ageing bearings, when will you be this far into this bike again?
As for the price estimate of $400 to $600, that seems very high, but then I don't know what competive prices are on the East Coast. I just powdercoated the frame and swing arm on my R80st last month, I paid $235.00 which included chemical stripping of both parts.
Good luck with your project.

From what I have heard

Powder coat versus Paint, a subject open to much discussion and covered over the years by many.

I have had both systems done and to be truthful, both produced excellent results.

One thing I have heard as a reoccurring theme is paint can be touched up far easier than powder coat. Ie, scratches can be fixed with paint without having to redo the whole part. If you scratch or chip powder coat, depending on how fussy you are, you will have to do the whole thing over again.

In both cases, preparation is one of the keys to a proper job.

In the case of powder coating due to the high heat involved, I would remove the driveshaft and just send in the swing arm. St.

STEVENRANKIN said:

Powder coat versus Paint, a subject open to much discussion and covered over the years by many.

I have had both systems done and to be truthful, both produced excellent results.

One thing I have heard as a reoccurring theme is paint can be touched up far easier than powder coat. Ie, scratches can be fixed with paint without having to redo the whole part. If you scratch or chip powder coat, depending on how fussy you are, you will have to do the whole thing over again.

In both cases, preparation is one of the keys to a proper job.

In the case of powder coating due to the high heat involved, I would remove the driveshaft and just send in the swing arm. St.

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Steve,

I've had good success using auto touch up paint and either a toothpick for small dings in the powder coat or the included small brush in the touch up paint. Application of very small amounts and then building up the repair yield very good results. AFAIK, this seals the chip stopping any water penetration and subsequent rust.

If you are real fussy, use 1000, 1500 then 2000 grit wet/dry to smooth the top of the paint repair and blend it into the powder coat. Than you can use Griot's paint polish to get the luster to match.

Best.
Brook.

Never too late

Brook, it is never too late to learn something new. Thanks for the information. St.

cseltz said:

When I painted my R75/6, for the frame and the headlight shell, I used a one part polyurethane boat paint from interlux. My small shop compressor was fine and I used a Sharpe touch up paint gun that I have had for at least 30 years. The finish is durable, looks fine and is “repairable”. The can of paint was $30 For a quart and I probably still have half of it. Otherwise the cost was sandpaper and solvent.

Click to expand...

thank you.

today was calling local distributers of interlux. if i remember correctly the one part paint was about $50 a quart and the 2 part paint was $99 per quart.

like everything else the prices in NYC area are jacked up.

CNRed said:

I've had several frames powdercoated, I believe six at this point, presently refreshing a 1984 R80st.
I have always removed steering tube bearing and races, swing arm bearingds and races and on all BMW's I have removed the drive shaft.
The process of powdercoating requires the removal of finish on the parts you are coating. In a lot of cases this is done by sand blasting, soda blasting or chemical removal, all of which are not real good for parts left on the bike.
By whatever means the existing finish is removed, I always felt it better to remove those parts.
The other issue is the heat needed to accomplish the powdercoating process is quite high. I always worried about any grease or oils that might be trapped in bearings or races that might liquifify and drip or run onto the frame or swing arm during the heating process and ruin the finish.
The other side of the issue is, if you are this far into your project why would you not take the extra step and replace ageing bearings, when will you be this far into this bike again?
As for the price estimate of $400 to $600, that seems very high, but then I don't know what competive prices are on the East Coast. I just powdercoated the frame and swing arm on my R80st last month, I paid $235.00 which included chemical stripping of both parts.
Good luck with your project.

Click to expand...

thank you

my concern was the Universal joint bearings that are in the driveshaft where it meets the clutch. every cage with rollers, seal would have been removed, only the part of the race that is pressed would have stayed on cleaned and wiped off any grease.
ordered a new set of roller bearings for the swing arm

r60celo5 said:

thank you.

today was calling local distributers of interlux. if i remember correctly the one part paint was about $50 a quart and the 2 part paint was $99 per quart.

like everything else the prices in NYC area are jacked up.

Click to expand...

I checked Defender.com (boat supplies) and you’re right it is more expensive. $40 for a quart of interlux Brightside
By the time you get through shipping it (hazardous) you will be over $50. Good paint though.

I've used POR15 on rusted metal boat parts. Put it on with a brush over bare metal and some painted surfaces. . It levels well with no brush marks . Stands up well to salt water. I think it would be a great product for frame paint.

update

so i went with interlux Brightside (one part paint)

called one of the marinas around and after telling him that i was painting a motorcycle frame and i was a newbie at painting and with no access to a both or a sprayer, he suggested that I go with the one part paint as it is easier to apply and touch up. he also suggested that I use the Prevail spraying system, so I bought the kit with a couple extra power units (the compressed air bottle thingy that screws on top of the paint holder). I also bought the thinner to thin paint for the sprayer and also for clean ups. before the paint i had scuffed up the paint on the frame, and applied 2 coat of self etching primer (autozone) and sanded down with 800 pad. I am a bit concerned how well the oil base paint will stick on the primer.

i am glad i did buy the sprayer, in about 30 minutes I had first coat on frame, subframe, swing arm and battery holders. I had all parts laid out on my patio table (with a drop cloth underneath of course) and went to town with that little sprayer.

using the sprayer was a bit tricky and messy as you need to fill, thin, hold it a certain way, but at the end it was quick and the paint self leveled nicely. I let it dry for 24 hours about sand it down with 220 as I did not have any recommended 320 handy. then last night and applied the second coat with the sprayer again.

between all coats, including the primer I wiped down with paint thinner and used compressed air to make sure got all the dust off.

one quart goes a long way, I have 2 coats on all parts and have used about half the paint including waste.

primer, paint, sprayer etc came around 100$, time will tell how well it will hold up.