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I Sold My RT Today

Thanks Harry,
I know you are kinda sensitive about your Prius so I was trying to ask nicely about the true cost of propulsion :wave
I’m still a gas and diesel kinda guy but- those Zero motorcycles interest me. Initial cost is a bit steep and I don’t think there is any tax incentive on them.
OM
 
Thanks Harry,
I know you are kinda sensitive about your Prius so I was trying to ask nicely about the true cost of propulsion :wave
I’m still a gas and diesel kinda guy but- those Zero motorcycles interest me. Initial cost is a bit steep and I don’t think there is any tax incentive on them.
OM

I was a bit put off by the animosity I got regarding my first Prius, especially when a perp kicked in the rear quarter panel for $800 in damage. The horse-and-buggy crowd were hostile to the first motor cars that arrived on the scene.

I'm not exactly sure of the cost of charging my Prius Prime but just checking the electric bills every month I never really noticed any change. My last electric bill was something like $88, and that is with running the central air for the house every day for weeks now which is the thing that most impacts that bill.

The tax incentives for the Prius Prime are huge - still the same $4,502 Federal and now I see New York State has added another $1,100 in tax rebates.

The Prius Prime is a better car than the Prius in almost every way and I could care less if others prefer their less efficient vehicles.

Our BMW motorcycles are reasonably efficient, better than most cars. Staying close to the speed limit on my way to Salt Lake City rally I got close to 50 mpg on my wethead GS.

Harry
 
It appears that the MPGe number is a big clue as to how much more efficient the car is in EV mode - 133 mpg. Compare that with the mpg rating of any conventional ICE car.

Harry
 
How much coal or natural gas did the power plant burn to provide the electricity that came through the plug to the car? Have you compared the cost per mile for electricity vs gasoline? I am curious as to whether I ought to consider a Prius when I replace my Ford Focus.

Paul, that MPGe number for my car tells me that it will travel 133 miles on the amount of electric energy equivalent to the energy contained in one gallon of gasoline. That gives some idea of how much more efficient my car is compared to internal combustion engine power. And there is also the regenerated power captured any time my car slows down and put back into the hybrid pack which is included in that MPGe number.

Admittedly there is not 100 percent efficiency in converting natural gas or coal to electricity. But there are also energy costs to produce a gallon of gasoline, including additional CO2 produced flaring off the gases from producing crude oil, most of which contain dissolved gases. Much of those light areas on a nighttime map of North Dakota are flares, the burning off of the gases separated from the crude oil. It gets complicated. Also, as I mentioned, a significant percentage of New York electricity is from hydro-electric with a small amount from wind and solar. The cost of gasoline also includes significant taxes.

Converting gasoline into motive force in a conventional car is only 15 or 20 percent efficient, and there is usually no engine shut off at lights and no capture of kinetic energy when slowing or going downhill.

Harry
 
Paul, that MPGe number for my car tells me that it will travel 133 miles on the amount of electric energy equivalent to the energy contained in one gallon of gasoline. That gives some idea of how much more efficient my car is compared to internal combustion engine power. And there is also the regenerated power captured any time my car slows down and put back into the hybrid pack which is included in that MPGe number.

Admittedly there is not 100 percent efficiency in converting natural gas or coal to electricity. But there are also energy costs to produce a gallon of gasoline, including additional CO2 produced flaring off the gases from producing crude oil, most of which contain dissolved gases. Much of those light areas on a nighttime map of North Dakota are flares, the burning off of the gases separated from the crude oil. It gets complicated. Also, as I mentioned, a significant percentage of New York electricity is from hydro-electric with a small amount from wind and solar. The cost of gasoline also includes significant taxes.

Converting gasoline into motive force in a conventional car is only 15 or 20 percent efficient, and there is usually no engine shut off at lights and no capture of kinetic energy when slowing or going downhill.

Harry

These are good points.

One thing I would add is that in Texas, we can choose power options using the Public Utility Commission of Texas' "Power to Choose" website (www.powertochoose.org).* Once you enter your zip code, you can filter only renewable energy (or a mix of renewable/non-renewable). Not every area/county has a lot of options (rural areas sometimes have limited- or no- options), but the number of companies offering renewable plans have grown tremendously in the past decade. I have students in rural areas that didn't have renewable options ten years ago, but do have them at competitive prices today. In my area, 100% renewable is cost competitive.

I don't know if some other states might also have similar options to choose power providers, especially where power has been deregulated- I think some states have a sole provider but may have options within that provider... might be worth looking into for anyone interested. In Oregon, I see that Portland General Electric has a limited range of options that includes a 100% renewable package.

*Note: There are several mimics of the Texas PUC's Power to Choose out there that pop up when you Google "Power to Choose Texas", run by private interests (example: ChooseTexasPower.org, which is run by an LLC... some others are run by brokerages); I only recommend the PUC run site (you'll see the state seal on the home page).
 
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This might help:

<iframe width="994" height="559" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LzuVDOaCZeM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The main point - electric power for a car costs around $1.00/gal comparing how much energy is in a gallon of gasoline with the cost of an equivalent amount of electric power.

Harry
 
carbon offset ideas

Here's a pic I took a few minutes ago:

View attachment 79788

It shows my current running average mpg @ 97.0 mpg. I reset the running average the day after I drove the car home from the dealers, having bought it new.

It's great that you can get such good mileage with your Prius. Now back to the original topic: I think it is fair to say that motorcycling is especially enjoyable in beautiful nature. Most of us prefer a long distance ride through nature over freeway gridlock, lane splitting (in CA) adventures. I certainly prefer the former. So why not, as a national club, consider ways to "give back" to Mother Nature? I don't believe any mandatory surcharges to the annual membership fees is the way to go because some people will not accept it. A voluntary program might be best. I had hoped to have a local chapter of the Nature Conservancy have a booth at the national rally to share information about how we can offset our carbon footprint. Alas, Covid-19 happened...If this kind of program is accepted by the members it could be used to attract younger riders, too. Young people care a lot more about the environment than us older folks, and we can show that we care about their future and about Earth.
 
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