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73 R60/5 will not start

r60celo5

New member
hello all.

I just got myself a 73 R60/5 with 38K miles on it that had been sitting for a few years. It was not running and listed as for parts, however it looked clean and all original so I took a chance with it. The speedometer hand is broken and the tachometer hand is bent up and skipped below 0. Under the seat I found a bunch of receipts for maintenance done up to 2014 such as carbs cleaned, points and valve adjusted. My plan is to get it running first then decide how far I want to take this built. I learned from my mistakes from my previous build; a 1976 Honda CB550, I might have replaced too many working parts, but it looks great and runs very smooth.

At first the starter would not crank even with a fully charged battery. After cleaning up all starter relay contacts I got it to spin. There is decent compression (130 left 140 right) with a cold engine.

Also cleaned all wire contacts going in and out of the coils and spark plug wires and measured about 23 kOhm from plug boot to plug boot. I forgot the exact numbers but spark plug wires read a bit over 4kOhm each, the coils read approximately 6.7kOhm each, the total added up to as measured from plug boot to plug boot. One spark plug reads 0 ohm across the other does not show continuity. However there is a purple-ish spark with both spark plugs pulled and shorted to the engine block.

Flushed the tank and added fresh fuel. The fuel lines appear to be wrapped in a cloth looking thing and appear to be wet. I dropped the carb bowls unscrewed the top of the carb and found the crabs to be really clean inside, however I did blew all passages with compressed air.

In to process of messing around with the carbs I removed the setting screws but did not take note of how they were set. After carbs were back in one piece, I turned the idle screw (small) about 1 turn out from all the way in as per Clymer manual and the big screw about 2 1/2 turns out from all the way in. I could not find a reference on Clymer on how this screw is set but somewhere on line i read that 2 1/2 is a good start. At first time I opened the petcocks I noticed that the left carb was empty while the right carb got filled up. However there is gas in both now.

With all of the above I cant get the bike to run. I can smell a slight gas odor from the spark plug hole when I crank it so I am guessing the gas makes into the cylinders. The spark plugs are dry. I also flooded the carbs pressing the black thingy, gas drips at the bottom of the right carb but not the left carb.

Also checked the point gap and adjusted the valves. Found out that the valves were set too tight with no gap at all. so I adjusted that to .015 intake and .02 exhaust.
The points appear to have this white char/buildup however the gap was ok 0.16mm. most likely new points are in order but there is spark.

so here come my questions.

1) any suggestion how the set screws (big and small) should be set? (maybe not enough gas in the mixture to fire up)
2) How do I make sure the sparks are firing when they are supposed to. (all info on how to adjust timing is with the engine running, I am not at that point yet)
3) how bad is a coil with 6.7kOhm?
4) any suggestion where to get spark plugs and wires, points, coils? What's a reputable online store with oem or decent parts for our bikes.
5) where to sent the speedometer for repairs? (its gonna cost a pretty penny)

As I stated in the beginning, first I wanna get this bike to fire up with minimum expense, then decide how far I wanna take this build.

Thank you for taking the time to read this long post, I tried to provide as much info as I have.
 
You can static time it, with a good battery, without it running. Disconnect the battery ground cable first. Then remove the front cover. Shift to neutral, remove spark plugs, but ground them to the heads. Hook a continuity light to the points wire going to the condenser. Remove the timing plug so you can see the timing marks on the flywheel. Reattach the ground cable. With the ignition turned on, manually turning the engine over with an allen wrench in the armature of alternater, you should see your continuity light come on as the points would fire. Continue turning until it comes on a second time.

This represents each side firing. (Actually, both sides are firing, each time but only one side at a time will be compressed and produce power). These probably won't be at the same point because of runout in the cam so split the difference on the timing mark. Adjust by loosening the screws holding the points plate, assuming you have the points adjusted correctly.

Always remember to disconnect the ground cable when removing or replacing the front cover.

Regarding parts, check the BMW dealer's sites for a parts fische for your bike. Their prices are pretty consistent from dealer to dealer, for the same parts. Most will ship to you. I use Ozzie's BMW and have since '79. They're a good reliable outfit, having been in business since '77, the same family.

Good luck with your project
 
Welcome to the forum! It would be helpful if you include your location in your profile. You might have an Airhead owner relatively near you and it would help to maybe find a parts supplier near enough to drive to.

1) the two screws a idle mixture (small) and idle RPM (big). You have slide carbs...what are the numbers stamped on the side of the carb? I'd say the mixture could be 1 turn out and the speed could be a couple of turns.

2) you can do as posted by Gary or with the plugs grounded to the fins, just listen for the snap of the spark as it fires then look to see where the timing mark is. Don't get hung up on the 0.016" points gap. You might need to change it and it can be from 0.012" to 0.022" or so...gap is not too critical on a two-cylinder engine.

3) your reading of 23Kohms boot-to-boot sounds pretty good...I don't think there's much wrong there.

4) dealers are good sources (MaxBMW on the east coast...New York, Connecticut, New Hampshire), but so are Tom Cutter (Philly area), Ted Porter (NorCal), Motorrad Elektrik, and Euro Motoelectrics.

5) check my signature line for the speedometer section. Larger repair houses are Palo Alto, North Hollywood, Overseas...all do good work. Terry Vrla is a small business in Oregon and also does good work. Check they for prices and/or backlog.

Good luck!
 
Try firing a burst of starting fluid in to the throat of each carburetor and report back. There should be a black thingy on each carburetor. Your post described the "tickler" in the singular not the plural. This device holds the float down to allow the carb to flood the intake port with fuel. Both carburetors should dribble fuel when you do this. When I owned a bike with the Type 53 carburetors, I used a 5 second count on the tickler(s) to prime the motor.
 
You can static time it, with a good battery, without it running. Disconnect the battery ground cable first. Then remove the front cover. Shift to neutral, remove spark plugs, but ground them to the heads. Hook a continuity light to the points wire going to the condenser. Remove the timing plug so you can see the timing marks on the flywheel. Reattach the ground cable. With the ignition turned on, manually turning the engine over with an allen wrench in the armature of alternater, you should see your continuity light come on as the points would fire. Continue turning until it comes on a second time.

This represents each side firing. (Actually, both sides are firing, each time but only one side at a time will be compressed and produce power). These probably won't be at the same point because of runout in the cam so split the difference on the timing mark. Adjust by loosening the screws holding the points plate, assuming you have the points adjusted correctly.

Always remember to disconnect the ground cable when removing or replacing the front cover.

Regarding parts, check the BMW dealer's sites for a parts fische for your bike. Their prices are pretty consistent from dealer to dealer, for the same parts. Most will ship to you. I use Ozzie's BMW and have since '79. They're a good reliable outfit, having been in business since '77, the same family.

Good luck with your project

Thank you. Already have to front cover off and will try when I get home.
 
Welcome to the forum! It would be helpful if you include your location in your profile. You might have an Airhead owner relatively near you and it would help to maybe find a parts supplier near enough to drive to.

1) the two screws a idle mixture (small) and idle RPM (big). You have slide carbs...what are the numbers stamped on the side of the carb? I'd say the mixture could be 1 turn out and the speed could be a couple of turns.

2) you can do as posted by Gary or with the plugs grounded to the fins, just listen for the snap of the spark as it fires then look to see where the timing mark is. Don't get hung up on the 0.016" points gap. You might need to change it and it can be from 0.012" to 0.022" or so...gap is not too critical on a two-cylinder engine.

3) your reading of 23Kohms boot-to-boot sounds pretty good...I don't think there's much wrong there.

4) dealers are good sources (MaxBMW on the east coast...New York, Connecticut, New Hampshire), but so are Tom Cutter (Philly area), Ted Porter (NorCal), Motorrad Elektrik, and Euro Motoelectrics.

5) check my signature line for the speedometer section. Larger repair houses are Palo Alto, North Hollywood, Overseas...all do good work. Terry Vrla is a small business in Oregon and also does good work. Check they for prices and/or backlog.

Good luck!

Thank you.

I am located in Westchester, New York. Well update the profile.

I believed that the r60/5 should be in the 12kOhm range from boot to boot. And the r75/5 were in the 24kOhm?

Mine is a r60/5.

I am not by the bike right now to check the number. But I know those are the bing slide carbs.

Will look up the links you suggested.
 
Try firing a burst of starting fluid in to the throat of each carburetor and report back. There should be a black thingy on each carburetor. Your post described the "tickler" in the singular not the plural. This device holds the float down to allow the carb to flood the intake port with fuel. Both carburetors should dribble fuel when you do this. When I owned a bike with the Type 53 carburetors, I used a 5 second count on the tickler(s) to prime the motor.

Thank you.

yes I pressed the back plastic trickler on each side, but only the right carb dripped gas from the bottom. Will take the carbs bowls off again to ensure the floats and needles are right.
 
I believed that the r60/5 should be in the 12kOhm range from boot to boot. And the r75/5 were in the 24kOhm?

I am sure somebody can correct me if I am wrong but I always thought the plug caps, plug wires, and coils were the same on the R60 and R75 of the same year.
 
I believed that the r60/5 should be in the 12kOhm range from boot to boot. And the r75/5 were in the 24kOhm?

The coils should be 5K ohm each for a total of 10K ohms. Early /5s, the spark plug caps were 1K ohms each. But you have a '73 and in the range when they began to increase the cap resistance to 5K ohms. What does the spark plug boot look like? If it's OEM and is a blocky looking thing, then it's 5K ohms. Here's a picture of the boot on my /7 which is 5K ohms (don't pay attention to the red circle...I used the picture for a different reason).
Fuel Crossover.jpg
 
The coils should be 5K ohm each for a total of 10K ohms. Early /5s, the spark plug caps were 1K ohms each. But you have a '73 and in the range when they began to increase the cap resistance to 5K ohms. What does the spark plug boot look like? If it's OEM and is a blocky looking thing, then it's 5K ohms. Here's a picture of the boot on my /7 which is 5K ohms (don't pay attention to the red circle...I used the picture for a different reason).
View attachment 78003

thats the same spark plug on my bike, big plastic cap with the metal jacket.

thats great news for me. thank you all
 
Thank you.

yes I pressed the back plastic trickler on each side, but only the right carb dripped gas from the bottom. Will take the carbs bowls off again to ensure the floats and needles are right.
Since the tickler defeats the float when you press on it, I would suggest that if your left carb does not drip fuel, there is no fuel in that carburetor. Let's refer to Kurt's picture. The red circle features the fuel line crossover. Your bike has this hose, yes?
Your bike is 47 years old. That is plenty of time for a previous owner have done something to it that is not correct. Normally, opening 1 fuel tap ( petcock) will deliver enough fuel to feed both carburetors if that crossover is in place.
 
Stuff

From what you say regarding the cloth covered fuel lines, if they are wet with fuel, they are shot, get rid of them. Don't bother with the replacement cloth fuel line, good replacement can be found aftermarket.

Is this bike an electric start bike? If so, is the starter turning the bike over properly, does the battery have enough amperage and voltage to crank it over fast enough?

If you are getting a smell of gas, it most likely will be from the bad fuel lines. If not, then the bike is flooded.

Since you have points, you can take a spark plug out, ground it and check to see if you have a blue white strong spark.

You have done things so far in the proper order, valve adjust, point gap/timing, finally carbs.

When enriching the carbs for a cold start, be careful not to over do it.

If when you pull the float bowl off the bottom of the carb is there in fact, the same amount of gas in both carbs? A dry carb on one side means either the float is not working or the passage is plugged up with gunk. Too high a level means flooding which could be from misadjusted float level to again crud sticking in the passage, preventing the needle to shut off the flow of gas, causing flooding.

Going back to the suggestion of starter fluid, If the bike is flooded, even starter fluid will not aways run. Wait until the bike is not flooded. Gas off at the tank, dry carbs, then try the starter fluid. If the bike starts or catches with it, It kind of eliminates the spark issue. If not, Could be spark.

I am a bit too far away in NY to help. Good luck. St.
 
got is running!!! but it dies after about 15 seconds, even if I keep the throttle open.

so here is what I did.

replaced all the fuel lines with a rubber line that I had left over from my Honda rebuilt, I don't believe is a fuel line but will do for now.

drooped the carb bowls and found out that the left carb was about half. I realized I had installed the float needles upside down (with the ball upward) and fixed that. regarding the carbs all I see printed on the carb is "BING" and what looked like a product number 1/26/111 on the left and 1/26/112 on the right. I also noticed that the trickle button is on the outside of the carb on the right carb and on inside on the left carb closer to the engine. however the adjustment screws are outwards. I find that strange.

checked air filter, not necessary I guess, but while I was replacing the lines had to remove the cover to see if any gas had leaked there from the old wet clothed gas lines.

then I moved on to check the timing. lined up the S mark on engine case hole, with a sharpie made a small dot on the alternator housing at 3 o'clock, and started spinning the engine with the 6mm Allen on the alternator bolt. the continuity light will light up just pass the 3 o'clock and remain lit till about 11 o'clock. then will turn off and will turn back on just pass the spark at 3 o'clock. during this time I saw that the spark was kind of faint and the noise was also faint.

Then I remembered that I had found a new condenser on the tool box under the seat so I decided to replace it. spark was brighter and click was much louder. due to excitement I stopped the timing check fitted the plugs and hit the starter.


it runs and sounds decent but as I said it dies shortly after.

what could cause the short lived running?
 
{SNIP}...

it runs and sounds decent but as I said it dies shortly after.

what could cause the short lived running?

You have to be running out of gas. That has to be either a supply problem (plugged petcock screens, or a restriction internal to the carbs), or the float levels are too low and the bike only runs until the excess fuel in the float bowls from tickling the carbs is used up. Or, it could be something else :scratch but I would look at fuel supply and float levels very closely.
 
Making progress! Try loosening the tank gas cap...could be creating a vacuum and fuel is not flowing.

You should try a fuel flow test. With a suitable catch container, remove the left float bowl and turn on one petcock...measure how much fuel you get in say 30 seconds. Should be well north of 200 cc/min...best if it's higher than 250. Repeat by opening only the opposite petcock. Then try with both petcocks open. Finally repeat all this on the right carb. Make notes of all amounts over the 30 second time period.
 
You have to be running out of gas. That has to be either a supply problem (plugged petcock screens, or a restriction internal to the carbs), or the float levels are too low and the bike only runs until the excess fuel in the float bowls from tickling the carbs is used up. Or, it could be something else :scratch but I would look at fuel supply and float levels very closely.

tank was empty when i got the bike, filled with old gas, shook it around then drained it.
followed by removing the petcocks and blew through them with compressed air. the old screens look quite dirty and stiff.
then rethreaded the petcocks with Teflon tape as the threads looked wet.

could be the screens. will have to order new ones.
 
Making progress! Try loosening the tank gas cap...could be creating a vacuum and fuel is not flowing.

You should try a fuel flow test. With a suitable catch container, remove the left float bowl and turn on one petcock...measure how much fuel you get in say 30 seconds. Should be well north of 200 cc/min...best if it's higher than 250. Repeat by opening only the opposite petcock. Then try with both petcocks open. Finally repeat all this on the right carb. Make notes of all amounts over the 30 second time period.

will try with the gas cap opened, however as i was rinsing the tank, fuel did drip from the cap when the tank was upside down. so i would say the vent is not clogged.

will do the fuel flow test and report back.


thank you for all your input. this will be a fun project.
 
Good

Good for you to find some of the things wrong. A condenser that is bad will cause ignition problems. Good catch. I would have mentioned it but I assumed you had changed it and the points.

Also good to get rid of the cloth fuel line. Just be sure you are using fuel line now and not something that may break down with gas in it.

Good catch on the float needles. I am prone myself to slip ups in putting things back together wrong occasionally. I don't work on stuff enough to get proficient at it.

So now, you most likely are running out of gas. It could be caused by a number of things. One simple thing is to check to see if the gas tank is vented properly, try to run it with the cap open or loose. Crud in the gas tank can block the filters in the tank. IF you pull a line off of one of the carbs and get a good solid gush of gas, I doubt it is a blocked screen or screens. If you get a weak trickle, the screens in the petcocks could be blocked with crud. or the tank is not venting. No venting, bad or plugged cap. Rare but it happens.

Not to be a wise guy but how much gas do you have in the tank? Think of the tank as four tanks. You have two petcocks splitting the tank which straddles the frame. Both petcocks do not have to be on to run the bike. When the tank is full, you can turn on one petcock to normal, run the tank down to where the engine stutters, turn the second petcock to normal, run the engine till it stutters, turn one petcock to reserve, run to stutter, by the time you turn the second petcock to reserve, you better have a gas station near by as you only have a fraction of a gallon of gas left. If you have a full tank, the petcocks can be in any position for the bike to get gas and run. If you are at a point where you need to turn the petcock to reserve, that might be it. Try turning the petcocks to reserve and see what happens. Not to be a smart ass but make sure you have enough fresh gas in the tank.

My long winded note aside, if you can get enough gas to start it and get it running, I assume you have enough gas in the tank. I would concentrate on floats and float adjustment/needle blocked passage. Double check any work you have done to make sure things are in the proper place. I just rebuilt a carb and found a part lying on my bench, I had missed. It happens to the best of us who only do repairs occasionally.

I bet it will be something simple. Good luck. St.
 
Good for you to find some of the things wrong. A condenser that is bad will cause ignition problems. Good catch. I would have mentioned it but I assumed you had changed it and the points.

Also good to get rid of the cloth fuel line. Just be sure you are using fuel line now and not something that may break down with gas in it.

Good catch on the float needles. I am prone myself to slip ups in putting things back together wrong occasionally. I don't work on stuff enough to get proficient at it.

So now, you most likely are running out of gas. It could be caused by a number of things. One simple thing is to check to see if the gas tank is vented properly, try to run it with the cap open or loose. Crud in the gas tank can block the filters in the tank. IF you pull a line off of one of the carbs and get a good solid gush of gas, I doubt it is a blocked screen or screens. If you get a weak trickle, the screens in the petcocks could be blocked with crud. or the tank is not venting. No venting, bad or plugged cap. Rare but it happens.

Not to be a wise guy but how much gas do you have in the tank? Think of the tank as four tanks. You have two petcocks splitting the tank which straddles the frame. Both petcocks do not have to be on to run the bike. When the tank is full, you can turn on one petcock to normal, run the tank down to where the engine stutters, turn the second petcock to normal, run the engine till it stutters, turn one petcock to reserve, run to stutter, by the time you turn the second petcock to reserve, you better have a gas station near by as you only have a fraction of a gallon of gas left. If you have a full tank, the petcocks can be in any position for the bike to get gas and run. If you are at a point where you need to turn the petcock to reserve, that might be it. Try turning the petcocks to reserve and see what happens. Not to be a smart ass but make sure you have enough fresh gas in the tank.

My long winded note aside, if you can get enough gas to start it and get it running, I assume you have enough gas in the tank. I would concentrate on floats and float adjustment/needle blocked passage. Double check any work you have done to make sure things are in the proper place. I just rebuilt a carb and found a part lying on my bench, I had missed. It happens to the best of us who only do repairs occasionally.

I bet it will be something simple. Good luck. St.

you were right about the amount of gas in the tank!!!!

I put less then a gallon to begin with. I just checked with a flash light and the level of the gas was probably below the shorter of the 2 tubes of the petcock (i would guess that is the reserve?)

i added another gallon (that's all i have handy at home) and tried again, it does run a little longer now. :)

will have to fill up and see if that was the issue.

it sucks working from home. have to actually do some work once in a while haha.
 
is it possible to find online the parts catalog with schematics and parts numbers?

it would be immense help when taking it apart and rebuilding. I could not have done without it on my previous built. it was also extremely helpful making a shopping list while walking around the bike and ordering in bulk to save on shipping.

thanks
 
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