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Thread: Moly lube for spline shafts?

  1. #1
    Registered User voisinen's Avatar
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    Moly lube for spline shafts?

    CEA551D4-8F39-48FD-BF69-8B7F01DFFFD2.jpgHas anyone tried using loctite LB8012 moly paste to lubricate spline shafts?
    Spec sheet shows 60% moly.
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    Last edited by voisinen; 03-21-2020 at 01:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum!
    There is always some good discussions on spline lube, some are listed at the bottom of the page.
    Iím rockiní chains myself
    Gary
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    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    Welcome as well! There have been discussions about the discontinuation of a favorite spline lube, Honda Moly 60. Read some there:

    https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...0-DISCONTINUED

    Snowbum has additional discussion about spline lubricants on this page:

    https://bmwmotorcycletech.info/chemicalsetc.htm
    Kurt -- Forum Liaison ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
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    SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    I use the PGlaves concoction of greases to lube my splines. I suspect he will be along soon to provide the formula.
    Kevin Huddy
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  5. #5
    Registered User lkraus's Avatar
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    I've been using it anywhere BMW calls for Optimoly TA since 2011. It's also labelled as Loctite 51048. My label claims 65% moly.
    Larry
    2006 R1200RT

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    I use the PGlaves concoction of greases to lube my splines. I suspect he will be along soon to provide the formula.
    Short Question - Long Answer (Short answer below in Bold)

    Basics: To be called a moly grease it must have a little moly. Most of what you find in the auto parts or hardware stores (such as the ubiquitous Sta-Lube brand) contain between 3% and 5% powdered molybdenum disulfide (moly) by volume. To be called a moly paste it must have at least 50% moly by volume.

    The greases with 3 to 5 percent moly do not contain enough moly for splines. In my opinion most moly pastes lack certain key characteristics necessary for clutch and driveshaft splines. At least three key characteristics are important: 1) Anti-wear to protect against the sliding action of the splines. 2) Anti-corrosion to protect against oxidation. 3) Cushioning to protect the metal against the power pulses as the engine runs (fretting corrosion).

    My experience with actual moly pastes such as Honda Moly 60 is that the 50% or more moly content does well for #1 but performs poorly on numbers 2 and 3. It also dries out too quickly in my opinion.

    My original concoction took a moly paste and a very sticky water resistant grease and mixed them together 50%-50%. This was a mix of Honda Moly 60 and Wurth Sig 3000 grease. Because of all the advice to never "mix" greases, I let my first batch sit on the shelf all summer before I used it the following fall. I found no degradation so used it.

    Now for some serendipity. I accidentally stumbled on the fact that a company known as TS Moly, an oilfield service company based in Houston sold a moly gear oil additive. Without fully doing my homework I mentioned this fact in a Benchwrenching column. About two weeks later I received a telephone call from a gentleman who was an executive with TS Moly. He told me that they had received several phone calls from people wishing to buy the additive. But he said that they sell the stuff in 55 gallon drums and 5 gallon pails and folks were wanting to buy pints and quarts. He asked if I thought there was a market for this among motorcyclists. I said yes and soon Guard Dog Moly Lubricants was born. It was a two or three person spin-off from TS Moly. Ben Mathes and I had several phone conversations and I met him once when he visited the Houston club rally.

    One of our conversations migrated to discussing spline lube and I explained what I had been mixing together. Pretty soon GD-525 Moly Grease was on the market.

    After a few years Ben Mathes retired and Guard Dog Moly Lubricants closed down. But the parent company, TS Moly, still sells some of the former Guard Dog products, including GD-525 Moly Grease. See: https://www.tsmoly.com/grease-c-2.html

    They also now sell their Gear Oil additive in quarts, gallons, 5 gallon pails, and 55 gallon drums. See: https://www.tsmoly.com/additives-c-23.html

    By the way, I had/have no interest in Guard Dog or TS Moly, except for an appreciation for a person/company that jumped in to provide a good product for BMW motorcycle owners once they heard about the need.
    Last edited by PGlaves; 03-21-2020 at 08:48 PM.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  7. #7
    Unregistered User dduelin's Avatar
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    Honda Moly 60 has served me well for a quarter million miles on my Honda and BMW bikes. When it was discontinued several years ago I bought a last tube but when it is gone in 10 years or so I'll be looking for a replacement.
    Dave

    GL1800
    R1200RT

  8. #8
    Curious what dealership service departments use?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by OGOBRacing View Post
    Curious what dealership service departments use?
    They probably use what BMW says to use. This has been a disaster in the past, but Oh Well.

    BMW has over the years specified a number of substances for clutch hub spline lubrication. They have included copper based anti-seize which was totally unsuitable. Then they said to use a red grease which was actually Texaco Starplex. It was even more unsuitable than anti-seize. The BMW branded grease would actually melt and ooze sitting on a shelf, let alone in the hot environment inside a bell housing. Then they said use Stabarugs paste which was an assembly lube. One thing about assembly lubes is that they are very good for a short time, which is their purpose. So once again we saw premature spline wear and failures.

    I neither know nor care what BMW says to use currently. Normally I am a purist as far as BMW specifications go but not in the case of spline lube. There was a reason that back in the '80s BMW said to lubricate clutch splines once a year and that reason was the use of an unsuitable lubricant. Maybe things are better now. Or maybe not.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  10. #10
    Kawa Afterthought weschmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    They probably use what BMW says to use. This has been a disaster in the past, but Oh Well.

    BMW has over the years specified a number of substances for clutch hub spline lubrication. They have included copper based anti-seize which was totally unsuitable. Then they said to use a red grease which was actually Texaco Starplex. It was even more unsuitable than anti-seize. The BMW branded grease would actually melt and ooze sitting on a shelf, let alone in the hot environment inside a bell housing. Then they said use Stabarugs paste which was an assembly lube. One thing about assembly lubes is that they are very good for a short time, which is their purpose. So once again we saw premature spline wear and failures.

    I neither know nor care what BMW says to use currently. Normally I am a purist as far as BMW specifications go but not in the case of spline lube. There was a reason that back in the '80s BMW said to lubricate clutch splines once a year and that reason was the use of an unsuitable lubricant. Maybe things are better now. Or maybe not.
    So I ordered a Quart can of their TS-90 Moly Gear Concentrate and ask if this a direct application or something that needs to be mixed with another grease to make the final application sufficient? I've never greased a final drive spline before so this is new to me. I am riding a R nineT which I intend to make a permanent bike for my riding foreseeable future so want to make sure I do preventative maintenance.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by weschmann View Post
    So I ordered a Quart can of their TS-90 Moly Gear Concentrate and ask if this a direct application or something that needs to be mixed with another grease to make the final application sufficient? I've never greased a final drive spline before so this is new to me. I am riding a R nineT which I intend to make a permanent bike for my riding foreseeable future so want to make sure I do preventative maintenance.
    For splines the GD-525 grease is what should be used.

    The TS-90 gear oil additive is intended to be used as a 10% additive to transmissions anad final drives.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  12. #12
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Sine we also talked about gear oil additives...

    Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive was recommended by Oak some 30 years ago.

    I've always used it at 5% on all of my single-sided final drives (R100GS, R1150GS) and they have been trouble-free since the early 90s with zilch on the drain plug between changes.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    Sine we also talked about gear oil additives...

    Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive was recommended by Oak some 30 years ago.

    I've always used it at 5% on all of my single-sided final drives (R100GS, R1150GS) and they have been trouble-free since the early 90s with zilch on the drain plug between changes.
    I started using Gear Guard after advice from Oak in 1982 or '83. Back then it was easy to go get in lots of bearing supply places. After a while it became hard to find - before everything on earth was available on-line. At that time there was not much of a line to be on.

    That was the situation when I discovered TS Moly and their line of moly gear oil additives. Gear Guard from Dow Corning remains a good option too.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  14. #14
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    After a while it became hard to find...
    I got my quart bottle at my local bearing shop.

    So little of it is needed and it is expensive. These products usually have a life of about 3 years so I suggest owners split it with other riders in the area. One bottle makes a mixture of 20 quarts.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    I got my quart bottle at my local bearing shop.
    I only wish I had a local bearing shop.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

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