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Thread: Oil Question/kicking the hornets nest 😂

  1. #16
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    Oh no you dont. You must stay and participate until everyone agrees with your ideas on oil.
    Filippo Berio works for me.
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  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by stooie View Post
    What's the source of BMW claiming we don't want molybdenum in the oil? I'm not saying you're incorrect; I'd just like to see the source for myself.
    In the technical specifications on page 115 of my G310GS Rider's Manual, BMW states:

    "Additives (for instance molybdenum based substances) are prohibited because they would attack the coatings on engine components."

    I have no real idea what coatings they are using but I will take their word for it.

    Besides, I would never use a moly additive in engine oil if the engine has a sight glass. It coats the sight glass and prevents telling what the oil level is. I did that once 30 years ago in my K75. It took three oil changes and a new sight glass before I could read the oil level.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  3. #18
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stooie View Post
    What's the source of BMW claiming we don't want molybdenum in the oil? I'm not saying you're incorrect; I'd just like to see the source for myself.
    Wet clutch and moly has me pausing
    Steve Henson-Mod Team and SABMWRA Prez

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  4. #19
    Registered User stooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    In the technical specifications on page 115 of my G310GS Rider's Manual, BMW states:

    "Additives (for instance molybdenum based substances) are prohibited because they would attack the coatings on engine components."

    I have no real idea what coatings they are using but I will take their word for it.

    Besides, I would never use a moly additive in engine oil if the engine has a sight glass. It coats the sight glass and prevents telling what the oil level is. I did that once 30 years ago in my K75. It took three oil changes and a new sight glass before I could read the oil level.
    Thanks, Paul! Of course I then looked in my RT manual and sure enough, there it is on page 182.
    Bob Stewart
    Salem, OR

    2018 RT

  5. #20
    Registered User gsinnc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stooie View Post
    What's the source of BMW claiming we don't want molybdenum in the oil? I'm not saying you're incorrect; I'd just like to see the source for myself.
    Sorry was out this afternoon and did not see this

    It is in my 2018GS owners manual

    i-7DGR6cg-L.jpg
    Ed Apelian
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  6. #21
    SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    Evidently, they do not use the same coatings on their final drive components.
    Kevin Huddy
    The Outpost, Silver City, Montana

  7. #22
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsinnc View Post
    Sorry was out this afternoon and did not see this

    It is in my 2018GS owners manual

    i-7DGR6cg-L.jpg
    Manual says API SL, but recommends an oil with API SN.

    I smell conspiracy....
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  8. #23
    Registered User gsinnc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Manual says API SL, but recommends an oil with API SN.

    I smell conspiracy....
    I have always understood that any oil spec higher than the recommendation is acceptable. You can just not use a lesser spec.
    Ed Apelian
    Motorcycling is my passion because golf is far too dangerous!
    2018 R1200GS - Light White !
    2016 R1200RT- Platinum Bronze

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by gsinnc View Post
    I have always understood that any oil spec higher than the recommendation is acceptable. You can just not use a lesser spec.
    Unless of course it was from SG or SH to SJ where BMW famously took on the API and said do not use SJ oil. (Insufficient anti-wear additive for flat cam followers)

    Ever since the SJ fiasco I ignore the API ratings totally and go by the JASO ratings. If it is rated JASO MA2 and the correct viscosity you are good to go.

    Added: The whole SJ joke was caused by auto makers coercing the API because they were tired of expensive emissions warranty claims caused by the deterioration of catalytic converters due to the anti-wear additives in engine oil. The API caved to pressure and BMW boldly called them on the lack of sufficient ZDDP in SJ oils. I have never trusted the API since. It simply is not true (or wasn't then) that later specs were better specs.
    Last edited by PGlaves; 02-23-2020 at 09:20 AM.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  10. #25
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    You know you've been here a long time when you can anticipate the flow of topics (points) in an oil thread
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  11. #26
    Registered User gsinnc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    You know you've been here a long time when you can anticipate the flow of topics (points) in an oil thread
    Ed Apelian
    Motorcycling is my passion because golf is far too dangerous!
    2018 R1200GS - Light White !
    2016 R1200RT- Platinum Bronze

  12. #27
    Addicted to curves azgman's Avatar
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    Heck, we haven't even gotten into the whole Group III "full synthetic" versus Group IV "ester based full synthetic" discussion yet...
    MOA #107139
    RA #28511

  13. #28
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azgman View Post
    Heck, we haven't even gotten into the whole Group III "full synthetic" versus Group IV "ester based full synthetic" discussion yet...
    Please, tell me there's an off ramp on this highway of the damned........
    Last edited by 36654; 02-23-2020 at 08:02 PM.
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  14. #29
    Registered User patm's Avatar
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsinnc View Post
    Funny but I've read dozens of these Oil threads over the years and everyone has his/her oil preference and the debate always ensues about which is best. BUT ... never had I heard of any engine damage or reduced life as a result of the oil used. I always use the spec oil the manufacturer recommends and have never had an issue. I've never used synthetic until I bought liquid cooled BMW's where synthetic is recommended by BMW. Have always changed my oil at about 2000 to 3000 miles depending on the time since last change. Never had a shifting issue. It seems like all the commonly used brands work and it is more of a personal preference. Just my $.02.
    I truly believe any perception of 'better shifting' coming out of any oil fully meeting the recommended specification is pure hallucination. I just don't think the differences in lubricity between same rated oils would have to be close to zero, and when you think about the forces involved I just don't see it. Of course any oil that isn't rated for wet clutch operation could change that but again, same rated oils. I've used Advantec Ultimate for 2/3 of my 42K miles now, LiquiMoly for one change, and now followed your endorsement on the Castrol you linked above and once again there is no difference in shifting whatsoever, as predicted.

    FWIW, folks have posted BS lab analysis of Advantec Ultimate only to disclose it had far higher moly content than did this Castrol, which had far more (relative) than did LiquiMoly which had nearly zero.

    https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topi...omment=1032495

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