Gerbing problem

joeyb1000 · Feb 17, 2020

I’m trying to use a Gerbing dual controller using the accessory socket on a k1600gt. It cuts off after about a minute, and won’t start again until i restart the bike. I think the bike is operating correctly. It has a trigger to shut down the socket if the draw exceeds 10amps.
I switched to an old Widder controller, and it works fine.
Has anyone else seen this. I’m wondering if something has gone wrong with my controller, or do i need a separate outlet direct to the battery.

pglaves · Feb 17, 2020

I am not sure of the cause of what you are experiencing but can say that I am pretty sure that a fused connection straight to the battery will cure it. I suspect that the gear is drawing more than the Canbus likes.

Omega Man · Feb 18, 2020

From experience, heated clothing should be wired directly to the battery. The computer on the bike that controls the accessories is frequently too fussy.
OM

36654 · Feb 18, 2020

I'm not surprise the unit didn't work thru the CANBUS controlled accessory plug. But, I'm really curious why (and how) the old Widder control worked.

lee · Feb 18, 2020

joeyb1000 said:
I think the bike is operating correctly. It has a trigger to shut down the socket if the draw exceeds 10amps.
.

That's correct the canbus will act like a circuit breaker and reset when you shut off the bike.
I don't know why a older widder controller work.
Maybe the Widder controller only allows a 5 amp draw.

guenner · Feb 18, 2020

After the ignition is turned off the accessory socket has power for another 60 seconds and then shuts off.

Is that what you see?

I can't see when using the same electrical load (1 or 2 electrical vests?) why it works with one controller and not the other.

If there is an overload (more than 5Amps) the power is shut off immediately by the ZFE.

The ZFE is one of the many computers on the motorcycle interconnected by the Canbus. The ZFE - Central Frame Electric - operates all the switches, lights and the accessory socket on the bike.

/Guenther

61996 · Feb 18, 2020

FWIW: I have a K16GT and frequently run my heated jacket. I run it on low as well as high from the panel accessory socket without problems.
There is a second accessory socket just below the passenger seat on the right side of the motorcycle. I think it might put the accessory load on a different circuit and you might have better results. Some have rewired that socket direct to the battery.
Give that a try to eliminate any issues with the panel socket itself.

Good luck.

Joe

joeyb1000 · Feb 18, 2020

61996 said:
FWIW: I have a K16GT and frequently run my heated jacket. I run it on low as well as high from the panel accessory socket without problems.
There is a second accessory socket just below the passenger seat on the right side of the motorcycle. I think it might put the accessory load on a different circuit and you might have better results. Some have rewired that socket direct to the battery.
Give that a try to eliminate any issues with the panel socket itself.

Good luck.

Joe

I didn't even know about that outlet. I'll try it tomorrow. But, I'll also probable rewire it direct also. That way I can use my old BMW charger too.

61996 · Feb 18, 2020

joeyb1000 · Feb 19, 2020

Second outlet had the same effect on both controllers.

pglaves · Feb 19, 2020

It appears obvious that the Widder controller is limiting current flow moreso than the other controller. I don't know how the Widder controller works. I do know that the Gerbing controller which is a knockoff of the original Warm and Safe controller uses pulse width to limit current. I faintly recall that the Widder controller might have used a resister but that is only a vague memory.

drneo66 · Feb 19, 2020

PGlaves said:
It appears obvious that the Widder controller is limiting current flow moreso than the other controller. I don't know how the Widder controller works. I do know that the Gerbing controller which is a knockoff of the original Warm and Safe controller uses pulse width to limit current. I faintly recall that the Widder controller might have used a resister but that is only a vague memory.

Plus we don't know what kind of wattages these vests/jackets are pulling...

pglaves · Feb 19, 2020

drneo66 said:
Plus we don't know what kind of wattages these vests/jackets are pulling...

I think he was swapping the two controllers for the same garment(s).

guenner · Feb 19, 2020

An overload (more than 5A) at the socket cuts off the power immediately!

The OP mentioned a delay of "about a minute". This delay only happens when you turn off the ignition.

Second outlet had the same effect on both controllers.

So the Gerber and the Widder controller both do the same thing?

Did you test with ignition on and as long as ignition was on the vests stay warm?

How do you know that power at the outlet was shut down?

/Guenther

joeyb1000 · Feb 19, 2020

I was running the same Gerbing jacket and gloves from the two different controllers. I think the bottom line is that the Widder is drawing a lower maximum current. I think the bike is doing what it’s supposed to.
As suggested, the solution is to set up a dedicated outlet.

BC1100S · Feb 19, 2020

Pardon my ignorance but.....why would one want to run their heated gear when the bike isn't running? Isn't that a great way to quickly drain the battery? And if your bike is off, and its cold out, aren't you inside having a coffee? :scratch

pglaves · Feb 20, 2020

BC1100S said:
Pardon my ignorance but.....why would one want to run their heated gear when the bike isn't running? Isn't that a great way to quickly drain the battery? And if your bike is off, and its cold out, aren't you inside having a coffee?

The issue is that BMW in its wisdom limits the output of the factory installed socket to fewer amperes of current than the heated gear draws. So the computer that controls that circuit shuts it off. It is not an issue of the engine running or not. It is an issue of the circuit not being adequate for the purpose given the current limitation even though the wiring and the socket could carry the current except for the computer shutting it off. Thus a direct connection to the battery that is not controlled by that CANBUS controller works while the factory circuit does not.

52184 · Feb 20, 2020

Wander through the dealer showrooms and you now see a lot of new bikes being sent out with a direct-to-battery SAE connector zip-tied to the frame. Battery Tender sells these in bulk, making them inexpensive enough to just include with the bike, and while their stated purpose is to offer an easy connection for battery charger/maintainer they work well for connecting heated gear.

Bulk: https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-081-0069-6-J25-Terminal-Disconnect/dp/B002OPLEXQ

Singles: https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tend...ttery+tender+connectors&qid=1582210424&sr=8-4

Best,
DeVern

guenner · Feb 20, 2020

BMW: Oh, we can do that even if you don't need it!

its cold out, aren't you inside having a coffee

I fully agree from a human's perspective! From a technical standpoint there was this question.

Electric heated vests draw close to 5A. Adding another heated vest or heated gloves brings it easily over the (ridiculous!) 5A limit. One could use both outlets with 5A each if the BMW designer didn't have the glorious idea to have them wired together so the total of both is 5A. I don't know.

I was full of admiration :banghead

for the extra complexity BMW designers put into these accessory outlets. I fiddled with conspicuous lights attached to that outlet. One light draws 0.8A and it works - the light shut off 1 minute after ignition off. Good! Then I added the second one and both light shut off after 10 minutes! :scratch

This seems to be a designed feature to allow the BMW charger to work with this socket...I guess.

/Guenther

riderr1150gsadv · Feb 20, 2020

To avoid any issues with heated gear or otherwise,I always installed extra, fused!, plugs directly onto the battery on both my RT and GSA.
Easy to do and it will avoid any hassles.. YMMV

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