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Thread: 2019 R1250 GS Hayes Brake Caliper Failure

  1. #1

    2019 R1250 GS Hayes Brake Caliper Failure

    Hi I am at my wits end and need some help. Searched the forum so sorry if I'm redundant here but cannot find an applicable thread. In late July I traded my 2014 GS 700 for a new 2019 R 1250 GS at Falcone BMW in Indianapolis. Nothing but joy as I broke in the engine rest of summer/fall. Performed break in service in October at dealership. Now the facts:

    Received notice that Falcone was closing its doors Oct. 31 and a new dealership (Tom Wood) would carry the franchise beginning in 2020. I thought no big deal and winterized the bike thinking I'm good until 6000 service at which time the new dealer would be up and running here.

    Early December as I walked past the bike to my car I noticed a fluid pool from front caliper on front rim. Called old service manager at Falcone who is now at another shop and asked what's up. He reported BMW knows about this and has known for some time and is surprised there is not a recall. He had several disaster stories of course (showroom bikes leaking, new bikes from BMW already leaking in the box upon arrival) and said of course to park it (already was for winter) and to either 1) wait until new dealership is live or 2) Call roadside and have it taken to Cincinnati BMW which is what I did. That was December 4th.

    When I called the Cincinnati service manager to say the bike is on the way he echoed the former service manager in Indy. He has seen the problem on several bikes (both showroom and in-service like mine), has no idea why there has not been a recall, and is getting no guidance from BMW other than "send the pictures in".

    Now that it is six weeks later and there is still no update I'm not sure what my remedies are other than to wait on BMW and at some point I presume to be told "we fixed it".

    My question is to anyone who can provide insight (technical, current BMW responses, product liability attorneys). If BMW head service advisors (one former, one current) are perplexed as to how BMW is handling this and acknowledge there are a bunch of us out there with faulty brakes, even has a service advisory out, then why has there not been a recall. All it takes is one death and BMW knowing of the problem to unleash a legal process, a massive PR problem (BMW knew about faulty brakes but let their customers keep riding), and certainly a customer loyalty issue.

    Lastly, when I get the bike back how will I know (absent putting Brembo's on which are on all 2020's) the "retooled" calipers are safe. BMW did not know the original brakes were not safe, now they want me to have my wife drive me two hours to Cincinnati, they flip me the keys, and I ride back on I-70? No thanks.

  2. #2
    Watch This!!! junkjohn's Avatar
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    File a complaint to the NHTSA https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/
    John Simonds
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  3. #3
    Registered User WWeldin's Avatar
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    BMW had a recall on calipers for the G 310 GS, R, and a scooter model. It maybe a different issue than yours, but.......caliper. Right?

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/b...-brake-recall/ I would shutter to think that BMW did not know about your caliper issues. Not sure if they are one in the same as the G 310 GS or not, but maybe they were manufactured by the same vendor.

    My RT has BMW front calipers and a Brembo rear. Hopefully, I will not see any issue with the fronts.

    Good luck with getting it resolved. Keep us posted.
    2000 R1200C, 2019 R1250RT

  4. #4
    Yes front calipers. Both service advisors said there is a service bulletin on 2019 gs, gsa and rt models. BMW only (not Brembo). I would definitely keep an eye out for emerging fluid by inspecting. What is frustrating is BMW knows this yet does nothing (recall). It is rather alarming.

  5. #5
    The G310 brake caliper issue is corrosion and sticking.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  6. #6
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum!
    No doubt that this is disappointing and aggravating......but BMW will remedy this problem. They will fix it and guarantee it as they have the longest warranty that I’m aware of in the motorcycle industry.
    This is no fun for BMW either. Try to have a bit of patience while they sort it out.
    Good luck.
    Gary
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
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  7. #7
    The more I read threads like this about new model years [ over a wide assortment of bike models ] having issues, the more inclined I am to keep my 2012 camhead.

    Tempted to buy another or upgrade at times, but threads like these don't inspire enough confidence in the new iterations of their bikes to pull the trigger.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

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  8. #8
    Registered User MrZip's Avatar
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    Apparently the Hayes Calipers have been shipped from the factory to BMW after being cleaned with brake fluid. When Brake fluid is exposed to air it becomes corrisive and is pitting the seals. The Hayes factory should be using caliper greese instead of brake cleaner when shipping the componets. If the caliper is leaking the dealer will replace the seals and change the brake fluid thereby problem fixed. I don't know if anyone has been smart enough to get the factory to change their procedures. The cause of the problem is what a BMW tech has surmised.

  9. #9
    Registered User LFarling's Avatar
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    Well from what I understand it is o-ring related, no pitting or other such stuff. Apparently the o-ring is either deformed or pinched.

    I been using brake cleaner on calipers and pucks since I was 13 years old. I have never seen one have corrosion on the puck where the o ring goes, never. And trust me when I tell you the brake cleaner I used 50 years ago was a little more powerful then what they are selling today.

    It should be a o-ring replacement and a brake bleed and on your way. Now if there are o rings in the pipeline would be the question?

    Regardless this dealer is taking too long. BMW should be ashamed of not proofing their design with Hayes. I have said this a bunch, Hayes is one of the original innovators of the disk brake and it's main line was semi trucks. It has been around since the late 50 or early 60's and owns a few patent designs. I in no way fault Hayes. BMW for whatever reason(cost) went away from Brembo in the front which I find odd but THEY designed this caliper and had it built to their specs by Hayes. I lay all the blame either for poor design, a flaw in the design or materials, of a bad procedure by the manufacturer of the part on BMW, BMW owns that.

    I do agree to file the claim. This is a safety issue and IMHO should have resulted in a Stop Ride order and every caliper have the service done to it. If one person gets hurt or dies it would be just terrible. All serious flaws should be reported to the NHTSA. They are there to protect us and they will step in if needed.

    BMW does eventually step up to fix issues in most cases, but we are seeing bad cams they been dodging for a few years, bad rear master cylinders, and now brakes that loose fluid sitting in the showroom floor.

    It kills me they develop a new motor that by all reports is just so sweet and has had NO problems I have read about, and then change brake manufacturers on the front half of the bikes with the new motor, and cause a black mark or stigma on a very exciting motorcycle. I know if it would be me shopping for a 1250 I would want to know if the front calipers had been gone over.

    I feel bad for the OP but his distance from a dealer puts him in a bad place right from the start. "The squeaky wheel get the grease" is really true and if you could darken that dealers door step a day or two a week he would get sick of the conversation especially in a packed showroom.
    Lee
    2017.5 R 1200 GSW

  10. #10
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
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    I hate hearing this. However, it's just another chapter in a long saga of such mishaps. Is there actually QC at BMW? I wonder. From snowflake wheels, to "soft" valve seats, to failing speedometers, to disabling antenna rings, to defective transmissions, to fuel gauge failures, to DO NOT RIDE rear strut debacle...to now, there is definitely a pattern. If it were an assembly mishap, something routed incorrectly or torqued inappropriately I could be more forgiving. However, many of these "issues" are either design flaws, poor quality construction or pure lack of communication and immediate attention.

    I sold BMW bikes during the antenna ring debacle, had more than a couple of customers who didn't make it home, from initial delivery (including myself), because their bike would not restart. I'll always remember our BMW rep's response when discussing the bad press BMW must receive because of these failures. She said, "the public has a short memory, it will take a year or so, but they'll forget about this." She could be right however, when these types of events occur repeatedly, I wonder.

    Certainly one thing is true, premium pricing does not buy premium quality control.
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  11. #11
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    On the S1000RRForum, the 2020 S1000RR owners are reporting the same leaking Hayes brake calipers and at least one Master Tech is saying this:

    BMW know about the issue. They can replace the calipers. They leak in the crate. Check your front carbon wheel for brake fluid stains. Mine needs replacing. The calipers leak from the between the 2 halves or from the piston seals. Most do not need replacing. They bed in after some riding. The machining of the piston bore is slightly rough and needs bedding in. Never in my life have I heard of running in a caliper lol. But it seems to be correct. I have replaced quite a few until I started bedding them in. They are then ok. But check your front wheel for stains.

    LOL

  12. #12

    They are killing the dealers with "Stop Sell" orders and recalls

    They can't sell the GS, GSA, RT, scooters or the G 310GS due to brake problems. They can't sell the RR or Bagger due to transmission issues so what can the dealers sell so they can keep the doors open, they still have to pay a floor plan for all the bikes they can't sell and the ones still in the crate leaking brake fluid.

    I heard some of the replacement calipers are leaking as soon as they are installed!

    Good thing I have a few bikes that still have the original cable and brake shoe anti-lock brakes, /2 and /5 to be more acurate

  13. #13
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    “Value Engineered”, “Globally Sourced” components. Throw in “rush to market” and turning bikes into the technological equivalent of a 2-wheel car seems to have some drawbacks.
    OM
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  14. #14
    Registered User jandhumphreyme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    I hate hearing this. However, it's just another chapter in a long saga of such mishaps. Is there actually QC at BMW? I wonder. From snowflake wheels, to "soft" valve seats, to failing speedometers, to disabling antenna rings, to defective transmissions, to fuel gauge failures, to DO NOT RIDE rear strut debacle...to now, there is definitely a pattern. If it were an assembly mishap, something routed incorrectly or torqued inappropriately I could be more forgiving. However, many of these "issues" are either design flaws, poor quality construction or pure lack of communication and immediate attention.

    I sold BMW bikes during the antenna ring debacle, had more than a couple of customers who didn't make it home, from initial delivery (including myself), because their bike would not restart. I'll always remember our BMW rep's response when discussing the bad press BMW must receive because of these failures. She said, "the public has a short memory, it will take a year or so, but they'll forget about this." She could be right however, when these types of events occur repeatedly, I wonder.

    Certainly one thing is true, premium pricing does not buy premium quality control.
    The public's memory is indeed short, however, the internet is forever. I've upgraded to a 2018 RT and stupid me did not do any research beforehand thinking BMW would have issues sorted out, only to read about soft cams, repair or not, warranty or not, I like most others, hate dicking around with something so simple to prevent.

    OP good luck with the brake repair, please post update after you get some miles on it.
    So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains
    And we never even know we have the key

  15. #15
    I purchased a 2019 1250 RT in October and due to the weather turning cold only have about 450 miles on the bike. I was reading this thread this morning and went to check on my calipers. I did not see any fluid on the floor but after running my hand over the calipers I had brake fluid on my fingers. Pretty disappointing!

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